2180 cam choice

[Chico]

Hi All
So Ive just bought a brand new Ali stroker Case !!very exciting (£625 "gulp" on heritage at the mo) , and planning my next engine , I Really like "leaky" the 1776 and was a massive boost from the 1600 but I want even more oomph ( and less leaks.)
Its my daily 6 days a week ,works only local roughly a 25mile radius of home, carry lots of tools and generally picking up something sand cement fencing turf rolls , carry mowers etc in the summer , there's no massive hills round my way but there is also no flat roads , most of my driving is country roads between 40 and 50 mph 1500 to 3000 rpm .
Im not looking for a race engine I'm unlikely to ever go past 5k revs , so looking for power band between 1.5k to 6k max
Ive read quite a bit, most people seem to be going much bigger cams , but from what I've have read I think a w110 with 1:25 rockers will work well for me , last thing I want to do is overcam it , and not have anything below 3k revs and everything at 7k as that's not how I roll .

Plan is 2180 , 82mm crank / TW 92' s / 40X35.5 heads ( I have already) and either rejet/ increase choke on the 40's(iDF's) or switch to 44's.

Lots of people telling me im being lame and go bigger cam , would be great to hear everyones thoughts

Cheers
Chico

P.s. Im having a bit of a Clear out will post some parts up tomorrow in the sale section various tin ware hub caps etc , all free , but please make a donation to the forum . Im camping a Volksworld so you can collect from there .

 

[megaaircooled]

My choice Engle FK8

 

[megaaircooled]

Its not about valve lift its about duration.

 

[sparkywig]

I'm building a similar spec, but 80mm crank, with an Engle 120 cam.
However, the 2054 in my bus has a Scat C-35.

As a slight aside, I had nothing but trouble with AutoLinea cases and finally went with a much machined stock case.

 

[Chico]

Hi thanks Megaaircooled / sparkywig ill have a look/read up

Im just worried about it being a bit flat on pull away/ up hill , run a w100 now on the 1776 ( 82hp) and it pulls ok-ish from start livens up from 2k -4k .

Sparkywig , yes they haven't got the best reputation, can I ask what issues you had ? everything measures up correctly , needs a little bit of finishing ( rough edges ) in places , but haven't trial fitted anything yet

Chico

 

[megaaircooled]

What gearbox final drive you got.

 

[StefansBus]

Not a definite answer as I'm not an engine builder but a couple of things come to mind:

Compression ratio will be an important consideration together with cam choice. Cam timing and static CR will result in your dynamic CR which is what's important. So don't go too high on the CR wth a mild cam but use enough CR for the cam or you will be leaving efficiency and power on the table.

Cooling: You mention driving it between 1500 and 3000 RPM. Consider that your air-cooled engine needs some fan speed for good cooling. Your heads will get quite hot under load at low RPMs and your fan may not provide enough air. The extra torque from a larger engine may make it tempting to drive around at low RPMs but I would at least give some thought to the RPM range which provides optimum cooling. My guess is that this will be around 3500 RPM or so. Of course you could vary pulley sizes in order to achieve the desired fan speed.

Would be interesting to hear opinions from the experts here.

Stefan

 

[megaaircooled]

Not a definite answer as I'm not an engine builder but a couple of things come to mind:

Compression ratio will be an important consideration together with cam choice. Cam timing and static CR will result in your dynamic CR which is what's important. So don't go too high on the CR wth a mild cam but use enough CR for the cam or you will be leaving efficiency and power on the table.

Cooling: You mention driving it between 1500 and 3000 RPM. Consider that your air-cooled engine needs some fan speed for good cooling. Your heads will get quite hot under load at low RPMs and your fan may not provide enough air. The extra torque from a larger engine may make it tempting to drive around at low RPMs but I would at least give some thought to the RPM range which provides optimum cooling. My guess is that this will be around 3500 RPM or so. Of course you could vary pulley sizes in order to achieve the desired fan speed.

Would be interesting to hear opinions from the experts here.

Stefan

Good points,thats why I was asking about final drive gearing.

 

[K@rlos]

An Engle w110 would be ideal or even an FK7, I used to have an Engle Fk8 & 1.4 rockers in my stroker and although it drove fine about town the power band was quite high and really was happiest between 3000 & 6500rpm. A W110 with ratio rockers will be from about 1500-5500rpm. Also the 110 & 7 won’t require such a high compression ratio to run properly so less heat and more longevity.

I’m all for big cams if the rest of the combo suits and have an FK10 and 48 IDA’s in my own bus but as you said yourself an overcammed engine will result in severe disappointment if it doesn’t match your driving style.

 

[K@rlos]

I fitted this to a mates bus a couple years ago...

1968cc 92x74
Engle W110 with bolt up 1.1 rockers.
Ported stock heads with stainless stock size valves
Weber 40IDF’s on match ported manifolds
Bosch 009 and Petronix igniter ignition
8.5:1 compression ratio

Coupled to an 091 gearbox it drives like a stock bus with buckets of grunt from idle and really comes alive about 1500 rpm but will pull to about 5500rpm if you wanna have some fun. Made 131hp if memory serves

 

[Chico]

HI All

Thanks for all the info / thoughts , CR ill match to cam : and get heads set/ cc'd accordingly
Gearing is stock ( I believe) CA code box wasn't happy with the 1600 , works really well with the 1776, tyres 215x75x15 70mph is approx 3200 rpm , I don't do a lot of motorway miles / drive at 65-75mph when I do , upto 85 to overtake on occasions . ( will get box rebuilt / sorted after engine build and I know what / where its lacking )
Looks good K@rlos , sounds Right for my needs .

Thanks

Chico

 

[atafonso]

My £0.01

A 2180cc by nature will produce a lot of torque, so you can go slightly bigger on the cam and it will not make the engine feel gutless at low revs like a smaller engine, say a 1776cc. My only observation is that you said most of your driving is between 1.5-3k rpm’s and most likely will never pass 5k’s. Why do you need an engine with a powerband up to 6k’s? You will be leaving some of the so desirable low end torque on the table for a never to be used power at 6k rpm’s. Make the engine produce torque from idle to around 3.5k’s and power up to 5k’s. It does not mean that you cannot rev the engine to 6k, if you do, there will be only a slight drop in power which you might not even notice. On the other hand, building the engine taking in consideration YOUR driving style will make it a pleasure to drive that only YOU will experience.

Here is my suggestion:

92tw AA
82 4340 crank
5.4 i beams CB Unitech
Stock weight flywheel (og VW if possible) Kennedy stage 1 pp and kush lock disc
All rotating assembly balanced
Engle 110 with inexpensive and very strong 1.1 rockers with swivel foot, HD alu cut to lenght pushrods
Stock AA500 heads mildly ported, basically just a good blend, intake match and a good 3 angle valve job and chambers slightly enlarged to 60cc from 58cc , single HD springs
Compression of 8.75:1 and a deck of 1.4-1.5mm.
40 DRLA or IDF if not possible the Dell’s with a 30 venturi.
A good 1 1/2” 4x1 header
26mm oil pump with full flow
All stock tin including thermostate and flaps. External cooler might not be necessary. Install a temp and pressure gauge.

That should be a beast of a torquey engine and still will make decent power up to 5-5.k rpm’s and will be cheap ish to build.

Abel

 

[Chico]

Thanks Abel
Much appreciated.
Chico