6 rib 091 gearbox into the van issues!

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Moseley

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Hello folks,

So I had a bit of a mare when I went to refit my engine at the weekend, and found that something is wrong with the alignment! Prior to the engine removal, all was well, but I had noticed that the moustache bar rubbers were looking a bit perished. The engine is a Type 1 TP, and is mated to a 091 6-rib gearbox. The problem I have is that the overall length of engine and gearbox appear to be about 20mm longer than standard, and some internet research seems to give the same opinion. However, the jury seems to be out on where this extra length comes from. As I say, this was all in the van and running previously, but it appears as though the additional forces placed on the moustache bar rubbers have caused them to distort and start to split, so I'm keen to regain the natural alignment of the new ones.

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I posted this on FB yesterday, and the majority of responses suggest that swapping the bell housing to a 002 will sort the issue as it is shallower, but everything else I've read suggests that the bell housings are near enough the same depth, it is just the starter sits further out in the 091; and actually the extra length is in the gear set section. Does anyone have a 002 gearbox lying around that could measure each of the case sections (to the mating faces) to compare with mine?

I gleaned some information regarding the differences in the starter mounting location - on a 002, the bell housing face to the starter flange is 7.0cm, whilst a 009 is 8.5cm. Will be checking mine later to confirm which it is. As you can see in the following pictures, a standard D bolt isn’t long enough to get a nut on the end when installed, and the threaded bar and nuts was what was being used instead. I’m expecting to find this is a standard 091 bell housing:

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So the obvious answer (to me!) is to slot the existing mounting holes of the front nose cone hanger, thus allowing the extra length to be taken up here, and then shortening or re-dimpling a section of the gear shift rod to prevent it from cranking too far backwards. I don't suppose 20mm of movement will be enough to cause any driveshaft / CV issues, but would appreciate anyone's input on any reason why this can't be done.

Final question, I've noticed the top stud protruding from the nose cone end is very long - so much so, that it has been touching a part of the centre of the torsion bar tube. The bottom stud has already been crudely cut shorter. This is currently stopping me from doing what I was planning to do above - shunt the gearbox forward by cutting the slots in the mount. Before I cut this off, is there any reason why this has been left long, i.e. is it supposed to limit the movement of the engine and box fore and aft? The only reason I've thought this, is because there looks to be some sort of locating boss in the centre of the torsion tube.

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Advice welcomed!


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Moseley

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Ok so to add some measurements:

Bell housing face to starter mounting face = 83mm

Starter mounting face to gearbox side of bell housing = 42mm (so total bell housing depth = 125mm)

Ribbed section = 315mm

Small section after ribbed section = 76mm

Nose cone section to end of the nose where the shifter enters the case = 143mm

Total length = 659mm


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mattp

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If I remember correctly, the 091 bellhousing is longer than 002 (and input shaft to suit). Also, is this an original 6 rib or a hybrid T25/T2 box as these are longer again
 

vinvan

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Just fitted a 6 rib to our 1776, all we had to do was shorten the input shaft by 10mm, we read "think it was on The Samba" that when fitting a 6 rib you have to move the gear shifter on the the long gear shift rod by 10mm, THIS WAS NOT SO, the whole thing engine and box went straight in no problem,
think the 6 rib was from a late bay
 

Moseley

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mattp said:
If I remember correctly, the 091 bellhousing is longer than 002 (and input shaft to suit). Also, is this an original 6 rib or a hybrid T25/T2 box as these are longer again

As far as I'm aware, it is an original 091. It is a Rancho 6 rib from Heritage, their advert states it is only suited to a 76-79 bus fitted with a type 1 style engine, so I believe the only modification they carry out is to shorten the input shaft to allow fitting. Since posting this thread, a helpful chap over on the early bay fb group has taken some comparative measurements from a standard 002 box so that I can see where the differences are. I'll post up the results once I've done a bit of a drawing!


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Moseley

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vinvan said:
Just fitted a 6 rib to our 1776, all we had to do was shorten the input shaft by 10mm, we read "think it was on The Samba" that when fitting a 6 rib you have to move the gear shifter on the the long gear shift rod by 10mm, THIS WAS NO SO, the whole thing engine and box went straight in no problem,
think the 6 rib was from a late bay

That is intriguing. From the measurements I've compared with, apart from my input shaft being shortened, the box is a standard 091. Whilst it will fit in with some coaxing, it is far from ideal, as it is too long for all the mounts to line up properly. Is yours running a swapped nose cone and / or swapped bell housing for 002 versions? If so, these are both shorter than an 091, so it would definitely be a lot easier to fit without having to move the gearbox location forwards, and subsequently having to alter the gearshift length.


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vinvan

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Been under our bus to do a bit of measuring for you "see the photo" double click to enlarge
The bell housing is aprox 12.5 to 13cm deep, sorry its not spot on, cant get that far under the bus to see
Hope this helps




Also found a couple of pictures of our 6 rib before it was fitted


 

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