Automatic Fire Extinguishers

[magoo]

Trying to decide whether to install one of these systems and wondering if they are worth it? With the type of recent fires, it appears that the auto systems wouldn't have been much use or not necessary. Fire underneath the engine caused by an oil leak, others put out with hand held bottles, some not successful. A well maintained engine and top quality fuel hoses should be enough?

Has anyone had their bus saved by an auto fire system?

 

[rickyrooo1]

we've had this very same discussion on the late bay..... i reckon you'd be as well with a decent size hand held (3 litre foam) that said i do have a firetec but i think regular hose checks is the way forward. we know of nobody whos firetec has gone off "in anger" and were discussing if the fan would actually suck it into the engine if it went off while driving thus in effect causing a lot of internal damage too....

 

[Dickie524]

Sounds an interesting topic and one I haven't fully investigated yet...

Ccould you stick up a link to the discussions you've had elsewhere please? (save re-inventing the wheel here)

Ta!

R

 

[Moseley]

It's something I mentioned in a 'which engine bay extinguisher should I choose' type thread, that although everyone has their preference over which type they'd choose and why, but I've never seen anything where the extinguisher has actually been put to the test.

I would imagine that in most cases, those that have one fitted are probably those that also carry out more preventative maintenance measures, and actually things like fuel hoses etc are in good condition, so they will probably never experience a bay fire.

 

[Dickie524]

Very true actually, the more fastidious the owner the less likely they are to need one!

(Though sadly not in the case of that split-screen earlier this year) But yes, in general!

 

[magoo]

I've been speaking to a couple of garages who have dealt with fires. Faulty Solex, fuel pipes routed incorrectly, faulty battery.

If it takes the fire brigade that long to put it out what use is an automatic system? My eyebrows would get singed if I attempted opening up the engine bay lid to tackle it myself. Check out that back draft! I'm thinking, just let it burn and leave it to the professionals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miSdoaxswHA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[BRAD]

I can't believe it took that long for the brigade to put it out!.

I've got one hand held under the dash, one more in the middle and one at the rear and one auto in engine bay,
better safe than sorry.

 

[magoo]

Better safe than sorry? Save those handhelds for an out of control barbecue.

Look at that video again, 3 minutes 40 seconds. Under no circumstances should you be attempting to open that engine bay during a fire. Get out, stay out, get the fire brigade out.



That happened the moment the lid was opened. Tatty bread as we would say.

 

[Moseley]

I think you're missing the point of an automatic though - they are designed to empty their contents at the first sign of a fire, not once surrounding items have been set ablaze also. However, I'd still agree that a fuel based fire is going to be very hard to extinguish completely, and I imagine it would happily re-ignite once an automatic had emptied it's small capacity.

I have one, but more for the safety aspect of giving longer to exit from the vehicle / grab the expensive stuff!

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

The cool flo fire is very different to 98% off engine fires,

That was a faulty battery that went bang so a gaseous fire!

Most fires in engines bays are either a split fuel pipe, carb back fire or electrical all of which an automatic system would help for sure!

 

[mike202]

Interesting clip. Glad no one was hurt.

Whatever the cause was of the start of the fire, it looks to me like the fire is being constantly fed by petrol from the tank. That would be why it keeps re-igniting despite massive volumes of water going on there from the fire brigade hose.

I'm not really sure there is an easy answer to this, but checking fuel lines regularly is a good idea. I still haven't installed my firetec extinguisher, but do have a couple of handheld ones in the bus. It's obviously quite dangerous to open the engine lid if there is a fire but opening it only slightly an firing in the extinguisher would be what I would do.

I think what it putting me off, is if there is a false activation of the automatic extinguisher. (something else to go wrong etc :lol: )

Those guys were lucky the FB were so quick and they were in an urban area, otherwise the whole bus would be toast!

 

[chad]

This may be a stupid idea - my excuse is that my bus is away having its MOT so I can't check - but could you direct the hose from the fire extinguisher down the vents at the side to save opening the engine lid?

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

This may be a stupid idea - my excuse is that my bus is away having its MOT so I can't check - but could you direct the hose from the fire extinguisher down the vents at the side to save opening the engine lid?

An automatic system has a trace tube that directs the extinguisher for you!

https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC999E001/fire-extinguisher-daus-low-pressure-1kg-dry-powder-vertic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

Interesting clip. Glad no one was hurt.

Whatever the cause was of the start of the fire, it looks to me like the fire is being constantly fed by petrol from the tank. That would be why it keeps re-igniting despite massive volumes of water going on there from the fire brigade hose.

Completly UN TRUE!

Having then helped them get the van running again in a week and to the Volksworld show and having removed the tank which still had fuel in it, I can assure you it was the gasses from a battery fire that was alight nothing to do with fuel at all. Due to it being gasses the alight gas clowd was pushed around by the water no re igntion as you put it took place!

People jumping to conclusions and scandalising things just puts the fear into people. Its not fair to those who dont know any better.

 

[chad]

I've already got an automatic extinguisher but was just wondering whether a manual one directed down the vents would help as well.

 

[slow-lane-Matt]

Do we know under what conditions a battery can explode....?

That photobucket link didn't work for me - this one does, and they do say later in the movie the fuel lines were intact..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miSdoaxswHA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mike202]

Interesting clip. Glad no one was hurt.

Whatever the cause was of the start of the fire, it looks to me like the fire is being constantly fed by petrol from the tank. That would be why it keeps re-igniting despite massive volumes of water going on there from the fire brigade hose.

Completly UN TRUE!

Having then helped them get the van running again in a week and to the Volksworld show and having removed the tank which still had fuel in it, I can assure you it was the gasses from a battery fire that was alight nothing to do with fuel at all. Due to it being gasses the alight gas clowd was pushed around by the water no re igntion as you put it took place!

People jumping to conclusions and scandalising things just puts the fear into people. Its not fair to those who dont know any better.

I said it looks to me like the fire was being fed by petrol that's all. I certainly am not 'scandalising' the matter as you put it.

I don't really see how a battery fire would be able to produce gases enough to keep it going like that, but as you were there then I will accept your opinion.

 

[magoo]

The photobucket link is just a screen grab I took of the video still, the link to the video is further up. The fire brigade did fire jets of water into the side vents, but it didn't work.

I have been doing some reading around about this subject. There was an interesting post in the JK forum about 5 miles of dodgy braided fuel hoses and clips which were purchased by a major supplier around 15 years ago being supplied to the VW community, so this could be a major factor in many of the fires we have had?? I also read some comments by an experienced fire fighter and bay owner that foam extinguishers are much better than gas and powder for engine fires. I have also read that someone who had two fires in his split, the automatic system helped reduce the amount of damage before he could get a handheld extinguisher into the engine bay.

So there are multiple causes of fires, filling up with petrol appears to be the cause of at least two fires :shock: I'm going to fit a fuel cut off in the winter, maybe a foam auto system in the hope that it will reduce damage, tackling the fire myself will be down to how brave I feel on the day I suppose. How will I get the family back into the bus after an incident like that though?

 

[Moseley]

Interesting clip. Glad no one was hurt.

Whatever the cause was of the start of the fire, it looks to me like the fire is being constantly fed by petrol from the tank. That would be why it keeps re-igniting despite massive volumes of water going on there from the fire brigade hose.

Completly UN TRUE!

Having then helped them get the van running again in a week and to the Volksworld show and having removed the tank which still had fuel in it, I can assure you it was the gasses from a battery fire that was alight nothing to do with fuel at all. Due to it being gasses the alight gas clowd was pushed around by the water no re igntion as you put it took place!

People jumping to conclusions and scandalising things just puts the fear into people. Its not fair to those who dont know any better.

I said it looks to me like the fire was being fed by petrol that's all. I certainly am not 'scandalising' the matter as you put it.

I don't really see how a battery fire would be able to produce gases enough to keep it going like that, but as you were there then I will accept your opinion.

I'm with you on this - you can clearly see the flames re-igniting in either of the dual carbs once the water flow is taken away. Batteries don't produce flammable gases as a continuous stream (ignoring the hydrogen produced when charging) - they explode when they get hot and might produce a one-off fire ball.

Due to the flammability of petrol, it is hard to douse a fire using water - you really need to blanket it to remove the oxygen that is feeding the flame. This is the intention of the powder / gas / foam extinguishers and is why water filled ones would be no use in an engine compartment!

 

[Ands1]

we've had this very same discussion on the late bay..... i reckon you'd be as well with a decent size hand held (3 litre foam) that said i do have a firetec but i think regular hose checks is the way forward. we know of nobody whos firetec has gone off "in anger" and were discussing if the fan would actually suck it into the engine if it went off while driving thus in effect causing a lot of internal damage too....

Isn't the firetech supposed to stop the engine which in turn stops fuel pumping out? Granted this won't stop the fire on its own, I presume the gas will then suffocate the fire?