jubilee clips ?

[burt]

hi sorry if this has been asked before
sadly have seen and read about a few vans setting on fire due to fuel lines ect
I did change all my lines last year but used jubilee clips and as we are going away next week would you advise changing these to fuel clips
Also the fuel filter has been mentioned and as to weather we need them at all
any advise well come and thanks

 

[kempy]

I replaced my fuel lines to the 'Aircooled Works' supplied fit and forget :- http://www.vwaircooledworks.co.uk/Fuel-Hose-Kit---Full-details.html

The kit came with band clips as opposed to jubilee. I also upgraded to the fuel cut off solenoid which also works as a filter so no need for one in the engine bay.

I'd be reluctant not to have a filter at all as you can't guarantee what crap may be in the tank after all these years.

 

[ozziedog]

I think the biggest issue with jubilee clips is when people use the wrong size and then they dont snug nicely. I have fuel clips on mine and they are ok. If it`s getting into your head about the clips then change them. I don`t think you`ll find anyone on here that will say jubilee clips are better or ok, just in case anything went wrong. The fuel filter thing is not really an issue if you have regular maintenance and put new ones on. On one hand , loads of people say "Don`t put it in your engine bay" and "it`ll leak" etc etc , If it`s leaking I`d want to see it and in the engine bay there is every chance that it won`t get overlooked for maintenance whereas if it`s hidden from sight, how possible is it out of sight and out of mind ?

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,The key is constant maintenance :mrgreen:

 

[kempy]

I think the biggest issue with jubilee clips is when people use the wrong size and then they dont snug nicely. I have fuel clips on mine and they are ok. If it`s getting into your head about the clips then change them. I don`t think you`ll find anyone on here that will say jubilee clips are better or ok, just in case anything went wrong. The fuel filter thing is not really an issue if you have regular maintenance and put new ones on. On one hand , loads of people say "Don`t put it in your engine bay" and "it`ll leak" etc etc , If it`s leaking I`d want to see it and in the engine bay there is every chance that it won`t get overlooked for maintenance whereas if it`s hidden from sight, how possible is it out of sight and out of mind ?

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,The key is constant maintenance :mrgreen:

Agree 100%.

When I got my van the filter was fitted behind the fan housing so you hadn't a clue what condition it was in. I moved this straight away in advance of changing to the solenoid.

 

[chug]

I would always run a filter, I repositioned mine above the gearbox and will just change it every year as they cost peanuts. The problem comes for those who can't maintain their own vehicles, taking someone else's word that it has been changed.

For me above the gearbox is better as its 2 less joins in the rubber pipe, engine side, for a potential leak.

Even with the correct fuel pipe band clips they are sized and need to be correct for the pipe being used, best thing would be to buy a kit as mentioned above that is matched if you are unsure.

 

[Webbaldo]

What chug said, filter next to gearbox. And fuel clips

I replace my fuel lines every service now. Some people may see this as excessive but its like £5 and about 30mins to do. If your changing your oil, setting valve gaps etc I really dont see the problem with doing this as well?

With all the van fires the past few weeks shown on FB Ive gone paranoid. Got engine bay extinguisher, little powder one in cab and a massive CO2 one in the wardrobe.

 

[kempy]

What chug said, filter next to gearbox. And fuel clips

I replace my fuel lines every service now. Some people may see this as excessive but its like £5 and about 30mins to do. If your changing your oil, setting valve gaps etc I really dont see the problem with doing this as well?

With all the van fires the past few weeks shown on FB Ive gone paranoid. Got engine bay extinguisher, little powder one in cab and a massive CO2 one in the wardrobe.

I had an engine fire over 25 years ago in my Beetle. It was my own fault messing with the fuel filter the day before.
It was a frightening experience. Having more disposable cash available when I bought my current bay I took the decision to have a full fire suppression system installed together with the fuel solenoid & fit and forget pipes from 'Aircooled Works'

I've spent a small fortune on my van and want to protect it the best I can. Fingers crossed I'll never get to find out how good the system is though.

 

[ozziedog]

What chug said, filter next to gearbox. And fuel clips

I replace my fuel lines every service now. Some people may see this as excessive but its like £5 and about 30mins to do. If your changing your oil, setting valve gaps etc I really dont see the problem with doing this as well?

With all the van fires the past few weeks shown on FB Ive gone paranoid. Got engine bay extinguisher, little powder one in cab and a massive CO2 one in the wardrobe.

I had an engine fire over 25 years ago in my Beetle. It was my own fault messing with the fuel filter the day before.
It was a frightening experience. Having more disposable cash available when I bought my current bay I took the decision to have a full fire suppression system installed together with the fuel solenoid & fit and forget pipes from 'Aircooled Works'

I've spent a small fortune on my van and want to protect it the best I can. Fingers crossed I'll never get to find out how good the system is though.

I like that, as none of us want to find out. I got two extinguishers one powder and one regular. I also got a firetec but not yet fitted . And yes you are right, if you are relying on someone else to tell you everything is ok in the fuel supply and ventilation departments and they may be great people but not necessarily conversant with air cooled and their foibles , if they don't know there are issues with fuel pipes etc then you aren't in a great place. I still can't understand why some suppliers are allowed to sell such extremely dangerous rubbish, is there not a BS like British Standard that has to be adhered too? Is there not a fit for purpose act? I mean a fire in the noisey cupboard can be very danger mouse, right next to the battery and right next to the fuel tank, I mean c'mon, that's not just a bit iffy is it.

Ozziedog,,, , ,,,,,,, going off now, glad it's raining now :mrgreen:

 

[Moseley]

Couldn't agree more with what's been said above. There seems to be a common misconception that jubilee clips are the work of the devil. When I recently questioned this on the Facebook early bay group (big mistake) I got called an ***** amongst other things whilst trying to have a logical debate about why they are so much worse than fuel line clips. Used and sized correctly, and they are no different. Jubilee style clips are used in much higher pressure applications on cars such as coolant pipes, so fuel lines are no drama!


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[burt]

went and asked Dave at kingfisher kustoms and he said jubilee clips are fine if the right size are used
plus he said the proper fuel clips are only any good if you have the correct tool to fit them as a lot of people don't and use side cutters of plyers ect the jubilee clips are a better option

 

[ozziedog]

Couldn't agree more with what's been said above. There seems to be a common misconception that jubilee clips are the work of the devil. When I recently questioned this on the Facebook early bay group (big mistake) I got called an ***** amongst other things whilst trying to have a logical debate about why they are so much worse than fuel line clips. Used and sized correctly, and they are no different. Jubilee style clips are used in much higher pressure applications on cars such as coolant pipes, so fuel lines are no drama!


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I be been called various things on there too :? Perhaps they know me personally :lol:
I've been questioned when using logic to try and sort something for someone and sometimes it's worse because they're trying to describe a noise and that can be tricky. Then you get about ten different things to look at, I've changed my points, I've put a new headrest on and now the glovebox makes a rattling noise usually just before the gear box falls out when I'm cornering at a hundred and five. Someone suggests changing to 3 in 1 and tying the K & N to the tailgate using re usable cable ties and that works every time. I thought they were rattling on about old school clips with a screwdriver like I got on mine. Never mind it would seem a lot of times it's a race to see see which keyboard warrior can work google the fastest and how quick they can get their answers up on the board.. I reckon a lot of them have never even opened the noisey cupboard on a bus :msn4:

Ozziedog,,,,,, ,,,,, luckily :mrgreen:

 

[gas1man]

Ozziedog................infinite wisdom............... :lol: :lol:

J & F

 

[ozziedog]

Ozziedog................infinite wisdom............... :lol: :lol:

J & F

Hey bud, I got around to sorting out those cans the weekend before last and I gotta say there was a bit of an issue with them. :?

Ozziedog,,,,, they seemed to evaporate :lol: cheers mate :mrgreen:

 

[purpledog07]

My 2 penneth from real experience-
Firstly, vw never fitted clips on fuel hoses at all on older aircooled engines. They were a correct, tight fit and they didn't leak.
Modern hoses are constructed differently so need clamps to ensure a good seal.
A fuel hose meets the standards that are printed on it provided that it is not fake, (I bought fake fuel hose a couple of years ago from a well known, reputable aircooled outlet. I previously bought cloth braided hose that had an old spec from another, which turned to cheese within 4 months.)
B.S. numbers = British Standards, SAE = American, DIN = German. Check the numbers on the hose against the relevant standard to ensure it is fit for your specific usage.
Choose a spec which matches today's ethanol added fuels and not the original vw spec from way back.
Stick to branded good quality hose from Gates, Codan, Cohline, Goodyear etc. Your choice will be governed by finding the correct size for the application.
I have found that jubilee clips work very well on hose from roughly 20mm OD up. They are just too strong and well made to bend to a perfect circle on small diameter soft hose, meaning they will more likely cause the hose to deform than to deform around the hose.
Aba make nice stainless nut and bolt style hose clips which are fine for the job.
Personally I have used stainless hard pipe with small lengths of Cohline 100% biofuel hose to meet fittings. I used oetiker clips on pieces that won't need removing for a long time and the Aba clamps on the carb and fuel pump.I
I saw the phrase "fit and forget" mentioned and must say that there is no such thing. Inspite the hose being almost impermeable to aromatics, it will still perish over time with heat and cold, abrasion, mechanical stress, vibration and exposure of the outer layers to fuel, other chemicals or oils.
CHECK YOUR HOSES REGULAR.

Not trying to be smart but I work with pipe and hose a lot and have real experience that I like to share.
Hope this helps.
Cheers. Dave

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[ozziedog]

Hey Dave, seeing as you are working with hoses , it's great to have some professional and valid input. The most valuable of your several good points, was to me, just some names of decent suppliers/ manufacturers. If you don't really know who makes the good stuff, it's then an uphill battle before you even start looking for new hoses. :mrgreen:

Ozziedog,,,,,,, ,I'll have to save this thread :mrgreen:

 

[Happystamps]

Purpledog/Dave raises good points-

The reason Jubilee clips aren't great for fuel lines is because they've got that big old block on them, which doesn't bend, and no support to fit to a narrow fuel hose. They pull in from opposite the adjuster and pull the hose into a "D" shape, which can create two leak paths along the adjuster. This is fine in coolant applications because the OD is much larger so that effect is lessened, and the contents are less flammable.

Absolute preference is, as per Dave, ear band clamps (Oetiker=Hoover of ear clamps). You need a special tool to install, although that's not too expensive. because the tension adjuster is part of the band itself, you get an even pull around the circumference of the hose.

Secong place- CT/grenade clamps. Removable, but still even tension. They are sized, like the ear clamps, so you can't just pop any size on. Upside of that... the tension is set for your application, so you know it's correct. You can even get some with ring pulls on, so you slide the clamp over the hose, push it onto the barb, and just pull the ring pull off- done. You can remove them with pliers without damaging them.

After that- fuel hose clips. Improved versions of jubilee clips, which support a narrow range of hose sizes with a support under the adjuster. Makes the pull more circular.

Then... The rest! Jubilee clips, locking wire, zip ties (somebody actually suggested this recently).

As an aside- you should install the clamp 4mm from the end of the hose (+/-1mm). VW hard lines don't use end forms so it's less critical, but since we're here that's the correct dimension and I always like to make sure that's correct when I'm doing my fuel lines- looks neater too.

 

[burt]

thanks all for the reply I would like to echo what ozziedog a big thanks to purpledog07 1. for taking the time to wright such an interesting reply to my question and 2 . for all the information that will I'm sure help a lot of fellow members
I will be replacing all my hoses for Somthing like you said
so massive thanks