niggly problem, any ideas?

[bubba dubba]

Hi all,


van starts first turn of the key when cold, and runs perfectly, and when still cold i can turn engine off and restart no problem......but when the engine has warmed up and i turn off the engine, then i leave for say 5 Min's its a bugger to fire up again, i have to crank it with my foot on the floor for about 40 or 50 seconds before it fires up and then really smells of petrol, i took the air filter off and you can see petrol dripping into the carb and its obviously flooding it whats causing this I'm not the most mechanically minded, and its costing a bloody fortune in petrol!!

cheers in advance if you can help

kev

 

[Doris]

I may be wrong but arn't all VW tempremental when starting warm?? well, all my VW's were the same!

I always found that the VW aircooled engine needs to be started in a different way when warm than cold.It starts easier WHEN WARM by putting your pedal down to the floor and holding it,THEN turning the key,foot still to the floor as engine fires up,as she starts to run,realease the pedal,give her a tickle if needed! tah dah!
However when cold, just start as normal with a quick pump.
I'm no John Muir,just what I've found over the years.give it a try - Rob

 

[Araon]

OK this is sounding very much like the old HOT START problem, first thing take your foot off the pedal that cetainly aint helping matters, its likely to be a matter of cleaning all the connections for the solenoid and starter, engine bay to ignition switch to gearbox....

often people fit a "hot start" relay which in effect shifts the switching current into the engine bay short cables low loss, fewer connections, using the ignition switch to activate the relay which inturn activates the solenoid putting 12V across the starter....

 

[Jason]

Sounds like a leaking needle valve on the carb..... is there a nice big cloud of black smoke when it does fire. Just get yourself a carb rebuild kit.

I think Camper and Bus mag had an article a month or two ago if you need a step-by-step.

 

[Tofufi]

OK this is sounding very much like the old HOT START problem, first thing take your foot off the pedal that cetainly aint helping matters, its likely to be a matter of cleaning all the connections for the solenoid and starter, engine bay to ignition switch to gearbox....

Gotta disagree with you there fella - sorry :shock:

Firstly, the official VW procedure for starting a bus/bug with single carb is similar to what Doris suggests.

When cold, press the accelerator to the floor once, and turn the key - should fire up instantly.

When warm, start turning the engine over and then slowly depress the accelerator (not pumping it) until it catches. I find mine tends to need the accelerator about 1/4 of the way to the floor before it will catch when the engine is fully warm. With the accelerator to the floor, you get a lot more air going through the engine which should help to reduce the flooding.

Cleaning electrical connections won't prevent petrol from pouring down the neck of the carb either.

I'd have said it was probably a leaky carb needle valve too, although the carb float height could be set incorrectly too (so I'd check this before replacing the needle valve) - might be worth giving the carb a complete new gasket kit/set if it hasn't been done - these come with replacement needle valves.

 

[Araon]

40 or 50 seconds of pumping and you'd be dripping....

he may well have a sticking needle which would certainly explain why when cold the thing starts without a problem as the needle has had time to bed...

the quickest way to test is a jumper from 12v to i/p of the solenoid

 

[woodslat]

I think the electric choke is stuck on, after it's warmed up you are running WAY too rich and it's petrol fouling the plugs. What motor is it? 1.6, 1.7, or 1.8?

 

[dave]

OK this is sounding very much like the old HOT START problem, first thing take your foot off the pedal that cetainly aint helping matters, its likely to be a matter of cleaning all the connections for the solenoid and starter, engine bay to ignition switch to gearbox....

Gotta disagree with you there fella - sorry :shock:

Firstly, the official VW procedure for starting a bus/bug with single carb is similar to what Doris suggests.

When cold, press the accelerator to the floor once, and turn the key - should fire up instantly.

When warm, start turning the engine over and then slowly depress the accelerator (not pumping it) until it catches. I find mine tends to need the accelerator about 1/4 of the way to the floor before it will catch when the engine is fully warm. With the accelerator to the floor, you get a lot more air going through the engine which should help to reduce the flooding.

Cleaning electrical connections won't prevent petrol from pouring down the neck of the carb either.

I'd have said it was probably a leaky carb needle valve too, although the carb float height could be set incorrectly too (so I'd check this before replacing the needle valve) - might be worth giving the carb a complete new gasket kit/set if it hasn't been done - these come with replacement needle valves.

i was told when i got my bus, when cold put foot to floor, then release BEFORE turning key, when hot DO NOT touch accelerator, turn key and only then should you gently apply accellerator if needed, mine starts fine this way. But depending on how carb is set it may not work for yours.

 

[Tofufi]

OK this is sounding very much like the old HOT START problem, first thing take your foot off the pedal that cetainly aint helping matters, its likely to be a matter of cleaning all the connections for the solenoid and starter, engine bay to ignition switch to gearbox....

Gotta disagree with you there fella - sorry :shock:

Firstly, the official VW procedure for starting a bus/bug with single carb is similar to what Doris suggests.

When cold, press the accelerator to the floor once, and turn the key - should fire up instantly.

When warm, start turning the engine over and then slowly depress the accelerator (not pumping it) until it catches. I find mine tends to need the accelerator about 1/4 of the way to the floor before it will catch when the engine is fully warm. With the accelerator to the floor, you get a lot more air going through the engine which should help to reduce the flooding.

Cleaning electrical connections won't prevent petrol from pouring down the neck of the carb either.

I'd have said it was probably a leaky carb needle valve too, although the carb float height could be set incorrectly too (so I'd check this before replacing the needle valve) - might be worth giving the carb a complete new gasket kit/set if it hasn't been done - these come with replacement needle valves.

i was told when i got my bus, when cold put foot to floor, then release BEFORE turning key, when hot DO NOT touch accelerator, turn key and only then should you gently apply accellerator if needed, mine starts fine this way. But depending on how carb is set it may not work for yours.

Oops, sorry. Yup, I forgot to mention releasing the accelerator before cold starting - should be pressed to the floor (and released) once.

Mine does require a bit of accelerator when hot, but I think that is because I've set the tickover a bit low.

 

[bubba dubba]

hi guys,

firstly, cheers for all your replies,...... sorry Araon should have made it more clear reading back, its dripping fuel even before i try to start it, i dont have to touch the accelorator when cold, and when its hot and it does fire up i haven't noticed a black cloud farting out the back ,its a 1.6 twin port, and I'm pretty sure its not the choke sticking ........ i took it to a small independent vw garage today (top blokes, have been going to them for years) and they said pretty much that its the needle valve sticking and that you can get a refurb kit for about a tenner but my carb is pretty worn (if I'm honest don't know what this means???) and it might be worth replacing it (probably pay for itself with fuel savings) also recommended to change to electronic ignition , and from what I've read on here it seems the way to go,.......so think I'm gonna shell out for a new carb, and some pertronics, gonna try some of the starting techniques posted though until i get this sorted,.........maybe there should be a new (tell us your starting tips) tread!

thanks again everyone

 

[Tofufi]

If you're going to replace the carb... buy a properly refurbished original German VW one, not a cheap brazilian Bocar or similar reproduction. The quality just isn't there with the old ones. For your money, you'll want the spindle rebushed as well as a full clean up and check-over.

If you want a bit more oomph, I'd be looking at buying a set of twin Weber ICTs or Dellorto FRDs - both are small 34mm twin carb sets, and will give a modest MPG and power improvement over stock. The only issue is they have no chokes, so they take a few seconds to get going in the cold. A secondhand pair of ICTs can be had for around £150, although they would be better fitted with an aftermarket Hex bar linkage - the normal ones are not well designed, and lead to them going out of tune. Also, bear in mind they are slightly harder to set up, and you may have to remove your air filter pedestal to fit them.

 

[Harlequin]

for a refurbed carb contact bugjulie on here or Vzi (same name) I've seen quite a few testamonials for his rebuilt carbs