Oil pressure / light issue

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danban

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Hi all been running my stock 1600 now for about 5 years and after a long run at the weekend I came off a dual carriageway and came to a roundabout and the oil light came on at idle.
I picked the ŕvs up and it went out.
I then drove 2 miles home. Light only came on at a junction.
On Sunday I got it warm and went for a drive.
No problem.
Was it just the oil got things in this heat?

I was going to change the oil.

What is best to use?

If I find the engine is faulty I will have a bigger engine built but get oil pressure and temperature gauge fitted.

Any advice appreciated.

Regards Dan

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The light comes on when your oil pressure is low and this will be at low revs esp when you stop after a run when the oil is hot and thinner. The temperature here in the UK lately has been hot so air cooled engines are hotter than normal, but you could have a problem..... If you haven't changed your oil in a while now might me a good time to do so, also if you haven't checked your valves, again this can cause engines to run hot as can poor timing. Worth checking the basics
 
Whilst not ideal, this is normal for an engine that is not in its first flush of youth, after a long highway run. VW themselves recognised this - see extract from user manual (bottom right)

72II-29.jpg


Any straight 30 grade oil, or 15w40 multigrade is fine for your engine. Avoid the use of 20w50, as it's too thick for the oil cooling circuit, and will make your engine run hotter than it should.
 
Rhodrich said:
Whilst not ideal, this is normal for an engine that is not in its first flush of youth, after a long highway run. VW themselves recognised this - see extract from user manual (bottom right)

72II-29.jpg


Any straight 30 grade oil, or 15w40 multigrade is fine for your engine. Avoid the use of 20w50, as it's too thick for the oil cooling circuit, and will make your engine run hotter than it should.
I don't mean to start an argument, but i disagree that the 20w50 is too thick and also will make the engine hotter than it should WITH A STOCK 26MM OIL PUMP. Do you have any base to say that?
If you check on the same owner's manual, you will see that for the temperatures we having lately the 30 is on the edge of being inadequate and the 20w50 is actually capable of working well even in slightly hotter temps, therefore offering more protection to the engine.
I have real life experience for i build engines for a living and have done many tests, i can safely say that running a 20w50 will not damage or make your engine run hotter. It will make it run better for keeping a good oil film therefore giving the protection the engine needs to live longer. Just my £0.01

Abel
 
atafonso said:
Rhodrich said:
Whilst not ideal, this is normal for an engine that is not in its first flush of youth, after a long highway run. VW themselves recognised this - see extract from user manual (bottom right)

72II-29.jpg


Any straight 30 grade oil, or 15w40 multigrade is fine for your engine. Avoid the use of 20w50, as it's too thick for the oil cooling circuit, and will make your engine run hotter than it should.
I don't mean to start an argument, but i disagree that the 20w50 is too thick and also will make the engine hotter than it should WITH A STOCK 26MM OIL PUMP. Do you have any base to say that?
If you check on the same owner's manual, you will see that for the temperatures we having lately the 30 is on the edge of being inadequate and the 20w50 is actually capable of working well even in slightly hotter temps, therefore offering more protection to the engine.
I have real life experience for i build engines for a living and have done many tests, i can safely say that running a 20w50 will not damage or make your engine run hotter. It will make it run better for keeping a good oil film therefore giving the protection the engine needs to live longer. Just my £0.01

Abel

As per the other thread on the issue, this all has to do with the fact that the oil cooler does not see any flow at high pressure. If you increase the thickness of the oil, you increase the pressure, it bypasses the oil cooler, and therefore doesn't get cooled effectively. VW never recommended a 50 grade oil for hot temperatures for their type 1 engines. The most that was recommended was a 40 grade, which is effectively what a 15w40 is at working temperature. VW of Mexico recommended 15w40 for their beetles, used in the harsh Mexican climate (though of course those had 30mm oil pumps and hydraulic lifters):

VWOilGuidelines-94.jpg


Interestingly, the Samba thread on the issue has many people recommending a 5w30 or even a 0w30 oil for freshly built engines, even those used out in California, where temperatures in the 30s are normal for summer: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467803

That said, this is clearly a topic where people have strong views! If 20w50 works for you - keep using it. Given the temperate climate that we have here, you probably won't have any problems. I'd rather use the oil grade that my engine was designed for, and what was recommended by the manufacturer.
 
Rhodrich, first of all, thanks very much for taking the time to share your experience and help the community, that's what makes our hobby great :p :p

I am here also sharing my experience i aquired over the couple decades involved with these engines. Not only the stock ones, but specially with the high revving and stroker engines. On these we need to modify the oil system to have an adequate supply in order to make the thing stay together :msn4:


The engines people build on the Samba are mostly highly modifed, the-most-bhp-i-can-squeeze type, so if they use a thinner oil it will make more power, but tolerances have to be tighter in order to have a decent oil film and therefore protection. It's all in the building and blueprinting process, so without knowing how tight or loose an engine is, it's hard to give a proper oil recommendation.

So what i am posting here is what works for me, and for those who know me, they know i do not settle for nothing less but the best and all the engines i build i treat like my children :mrgreen: :mrgreen:





This has been taken from the 1979 owner's manual, the year with the last improvements for the ACVW engine. As you can see, the SAE 30 is recommended up to about 25 deg C. Note the 20w50 though; it has a wide range of suitability which well fit our current climate. Vw never recommended SAE 50 and i never did that too.

An SAE 50 is not the same as a 20w50, and also an SAE 40 is not the same as a 15w40. The straight oil will be thicker at higher temps then the Multiviscosity, so they cannot be compared.
Also i never use straight 50 as they are really thick and also indequate due to not having modern additives, etc.

You said that a thicker oil has increased pressure, that's true. What is not true is that it bypasses the oil cooler and the cooler does not see any flow of oil. Even with a 30mm pump and thick oil like an SAE50 on a stock unmodified engine it will always have some flow of oil, but not all of it, therefore under these circunstances, the engine can run hotter.

On the engines i build, i recommend the 20w50 mineral with the correct amount of ZDDP. I invalidate the warranty if the customer does not use it. By the way, i offer 24 months on a certain range i have and even 12 months on performance engines which normally nobody warrants them.

On this forum, there is quite a few people that have i built engines for, mostly 1776's, 1 1600 and 1 1955 cc's. All of them do not have any external cooler, only the full flow filter as i fit to all my engines regardless of what they are. The 1955 for Brad is on the verge of getting an external cooler for not being possible the install of a deep sump, but i told Brad it was likely the case when we decided to go from the initial 1776 to a stroker 1955.
There is a customer of mine on the Late Bay forum that has one of my 1955's exactly the same as Brad's but with the deep sump, he uses the Bus for work and camping the whole year and has no need for the external cooler.

One thing though; i insist in using only Gen VW complete set of tinware, that makes the cooling system properly adequate. And off course there is the building process and the tuning, which the latter is also ultra important.

As time went on, the oils have evolved and we got some of that evolution while the ACVW was still being produced, so for that reason VW decided to suggest the use of the Multyviscous oil. And i did that too. Only mineral oil here that is, if the question arises ;) ;)

Abel
 
Brilliant,, I love a bit of passion, especially if it’s aimed at looking after our little earlybays. I for one will not tell either of you what type of oil I use . I for one would like to have the three of us around a camp fire with a few stellas on board and still debating the issue with some fab tunes on. Might not be feasible but I almost bumped into Abel a couple of weeks ago and I’ll keep my eyes peeled next time I’m down your way. :mrgreen:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,, love it mates :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
ozziedog said:
Brilliant,, I love a bit of passion, especially if it’s aimed at looking after our little earlybays. I for one will not tell either of you what type of oil I use . I for one would like to have the three of us around a camp fire with a few stellas on board and still debating the issue with some fab tunes on. Might not be feasible but I almost bumped into Abel a couple of weeks ago and I’ll keep my eyes peeled next time I’m down your way. :mrgreen:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,, love it mates :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Now that's some wise words right there, i can't wait for that time :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Love you all guys, let's keep our passion alive, well done to you all 8) 8) 👍👍
Abel
 
SAE 30 is for lawnmowers, Use a high quality 20w50 with a high zinc content such as Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1, your cam, lifters and wallet will thank you. I use VR1 in the 200 hp Weber IDA fed stroker in my bus and the bone stock 1200 in my girlfriends beetle with no pressure or temp issues. It’s best to take the samba threads with a pinch of salt at times, There is some clever blokes on their but they prefer arguing over what cam is the greatest for making 100000hp rather than actually helping people in the real world. Volkswagen actually superseeded straight 30 with 20w50 in th late 70’s so enough said.

But in answer to the original question the excessive heat from the past few weeks mostly Likly caused your engine to run a bit hotter than normal, causing it to thin out a bit making the pressure drop a bit at idle and thus putting the light on. I shouldn’t panic too much tbh, changing the oil won’t hurt it though.
 
K@rlos said:
SAE 30 is for lawnmowers, Use a high quality 20w50 with a high zinc content such as Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1, your cam, lifters and wallet will thank you. I use VR1 in the 200 hp Weber IDA fed stroker in my bus and the bone stock 1200 in my girlfriends beetle with no pressure or temp issues. It’s best to take the samba threads with a pinch of salt at times, There is some clever blokes on their but they prefer arguing over what cam is the greatest for making 100000hp rather than actually helping people in the real world. Volkswagen actually superseeded straight 30 with 20w50 in th late 70’s so enough said.

But in answer to the original question the excessive heat from the past few weeks mostly Likly caused your engine to run a bit hotter than normal, causing it to thin out a bit making the pressure drop a bit at idle and thus putting the light on. I shouldn’t panic too much tbh, changing the oil won’t hurt it though.
Thanks mate I'll change the oil and see what happens.
Regards Dan

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