Sourcing and Fitting Porche Engine toEB

[simonh]

Hi All

I'm considering, among a range of other options, installing a Porche 911 engine in my Bay. I'm very much aware that such an operation is not without major challenges!

What are the main difficulties?

Engines appear to be around the £3-£4K mark for supply only. Then there is the stripping down and rebuild, and finally the installation. Does anyone have any idea how much the latter 2 stages might cost?

Firstly, are there particular engines that just seem right to go in the Early Bays? I see the HP is about 250 and CCs seem to be around the 3 - 3.2. Are there classic engines from certain periods that would just seem to go with the Early Bay?
The engines just seem to evolve a little each year. Any great years? Ones to avoid?
I'm very keen to hear your veiws on this.

Then there is the small matter of brakes.
I've already installed early front discs and servo but wonder if 911 brakes might be more approriate. Does anyone know how much these sets are second hand? I know there are a lot of Porche breakers around the country that would stock them. Then the next issue; would they fit in my 15" VW Heritage Empi 5s? If not, what would the options be - I really want to keep the Empis if poss, although I did look at the 17"Merc wheels that resemble Empi's a little. The discs would fit in there.

Rear discs neccessary? Any idea of the sort of cost implicatons are we talking about here?

Finally, there's the handling. At the mo, my EB is dropped using Transporterhaus dropped spindles and then raised a little using GSF coilovers. It's really comfy but I wonder if some upgraded anti-roll bars might keep the bus on the level when cornering. I seem to remeber I read that they a re gits to fit. I also seem to remebere there is a very specific way of fitting thiese and an order in which you build them up if you're doing it over time. There wasa a link I read that seemed unbelievably authoritative on this matter - anyone know it? Anyone know how much we might be talking for this section? Also,anyone got any further ideas to prevent body roll but allowing soft suspension!!!!?

I'm based in the Chichester-Portsmouth area; I wonder if there there any specialists who regularly carry out such work and can be vouched for by VZI members? If you've already had something like this done I'd be very keen to contact you! Please pm me; a copy comes thro to me regular email acct that I check daily.

And any businesses that regularly do this - please do pm me.

Just so you know I've not been lazy - I've spent several hours tryting to do searches... to no avail...

Many thanks in anticipation!


Cheers

Simon

 

[mattd1984]

Have a look at Uber Cool thread in the gallery. Should give you some information.

 

[Rob b]

http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6639&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This is a good read too dude





Rob

 

[K@rlos]

Porsche lumps vary from 2.2L to 3.2 and come with carbs or fuel injection.
The carbs range from Solex, Zenith and even Weber I think although don't quote me on that last 1.

No matter which type you get it will be expensive.

 

[simonh]

Many thanks chaps for the aversion therapy. I don't think I'll be doing this! Rob, the dude in your conversion thread overcomes so many barriers that I would classify that conversion as impossible! Do you think he deliberately set out to fit a tricky engine and gearbox, or is that just par for the course when fitting porche engines?

Is there a simpler option, perhaps with certain porche engines, maybe without the gearbox, or are these conversions always difficult?

Thanks Westy Richardson for the outline of the range. Matt - not quite sure where to find the uber cool thread, being a bit slow...

cheers

simon





















p

 

[Haveacamper]

this is a bit of a brain dump that i did for someone on another forum the other day and i am in the finishing stages of fitting a 1981 911SC Engine. should answer some of your questions:

Before dealing with the cost I will outline what work is involved to give you an idea of the scale of what’s involved. After all, the Porsche engines bolt straight in!!! Apparently.

Because the engine is so powerful and I will inevitably be accelerating harder and travelling at higher speeds I had my 091 (6rib 2L) gearbox rebuilt. I had is reconditioned and had a taller 3rd and 4th gear put in. you could get away with probably just putting a taller 4th gear in, but I didn't want too larger ratio between 3rd and 4th – reason being, otherwise I would have to rag it in 3rd before changing to 4th. Another detail to bare in mind is upgrading of the brakes. I always said to myself that I would only upgrade the engine if I could upgrade the brakes. After all, the brakes original brakes are to stop a 70BHP 2L engine and the Porsche engine I have is kicking 203BHP.

So fitting of a Porsche engine. the engine itself (without tinware etc) does fit into the engine bay without a problem, and does in fact bolt onto the end of the bell housing, however, that is where the bolt-on solution ends. Because the Porsche engine is a dry sump engine there is an oil tank that has to be mounted. This is mounted where the original battery tray is. So you have to cut out the battery tray and move the automotive battery to the other side – where people usually mount the leisure battery.

To get the engine running, you obviously have to modify/make up the engine harness to fit onto your bus wiring. As you can see, I’m running a custom dashboard that has all of the Porsche clocks mounted in. The reason for this is so I could use all of the Porsche senders. I completely rewired my bus from scratch as the wiring is 40yrs old and I had to wire the Porsche wiring anyway.

The next step was to route an auxiliary oil cooler and fan. There is an engine mounted cooler, but I opted to fit an extra cooler to ensure cooling wasn’t an issue in traffic. Outside of the engine bay I fitted my electrical powered fuel pump, the fuel filter and fuel accumulator.

The most tiresome part was to make the tinwear. Because it is aircooled – like the vw bus – it needs to be air tight. You have two options. The first option is to cut the engine bay back to the chassis section making the tinwear easier to make. However, this poses the problem that if you ever want to return to vw aircooled engine you may wish to revert back to the original engine bay. The second option – which I decided to take – was to create my own tinwear that fitted the original engine bay. Reason being, I could if necessary, revert back to a vw engine by simply swapping it out. I think it also looks a bit better as the person has obviously thought about it a bit more. i have just read the article linked previously and i could have learnt a few things...I like how the guy modified the firewall!!!

The fuel tank needs to replaced with a Fuel Injection tank as you will need a return to tank for unused fuel.

As for cost. The engine alone will probably set you back about 3-4k and that’s probably without the oil tank. Then you will have the gearbox rebuild. For just 4th gear you are looking at £600-700 for 3rd and 4th about £1250. Then there are the brakes! I’m running a home made rear disc conversion and Porsche Boxster S 13” discs and 4 pot callipers up front. i know that the 13" discs and claipers wont fit onto 15" cookie cutters so prob wont fit empis. there are a other options tho. Loxy, among other, have updraded their front brakes to wilwood brakes for a reasonable cost and this can keep the 5x112pcd.

Needless to say its pretty expensive before you even pay for Fuel!!!

rear disc conversion:
http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8208&hilit=rear+disc+conversion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

uber cool's thread:
http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11772&hilit=porsche" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

my thread (from page 22):
http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4067&start=420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

my engine was bought off Nelly (previously Nellybus) where he did alot of the hard work for me so you may want to check out his thread too:
http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8148" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[dodge6x6]

hiya
what about going classic, have a read of the following from the web. (old Info so dont belive the prices lol)
i like the covair and it was a classic converstion, parts still available from america and you can mess about with them as well, have a look at the late bay with a 17 sec covair engine posted in my thread.

heres a extract from a web site about t2 and the Corvair engine

Chevy Corvairs were built from 1960 to 1969. There were 2 body styles, early and late (sounds like our buses). The early Corvairs were somewhat smaller and more square (they were built from 1960 to 1964). The late ones were built from '64 to '69. The early engines had a lower horsepower rating (I think it was 80 hp).

From 1964 through 1969 Chevy increased the horsepower by making the connecting rods longer and enlarging the diameter of the pistons. Now the motor put ouy 110 hp. You could also get a 140 hp motor which has 4 carbs and a 180 hp turbocharged engine. Both of these, the 140 and the turbo, are not what you want to install because of their slower torque curve, making the 1965 through 1969 110 engine ideal for the Transvair kit.

You use the Corvair transmission and differential for the conversion kit. You can use a 4 speed or an automatic transmission called a "Powerglide". This is a 2 speed transmission and it's what I have run for 8 years. One of the reasons I went this route is because the kit is cheaper for the auto and easier to install, plus there is a lot less things that can go wrong: no clutch no pressure plate, throw out bearing etc.

When I say it just bolts right in I mean it! The only thing you have to do as far as modifing anything is the engine compartment has to be cut out square, which is easily done with a Sawzall and a metal blade. The front of the transmission hangs in the same stock location as the VW transmission, the kit has an adaptor that makes this possible. The stock VW CV joints and axles are used and they bolt right up to the Corvair differential with the kit's adaptor plates. The rear of the engine hangs with the kit's engine mount which bolts right up to the stock VW locations on either side of the motor. It comes with everthing you need and everything fits perfect, wire harness and all.

This motor is bullet proof. It has hydraulic lifters, dual carbs and your horsepower doubles. When the kit is installed it looks stock, but runs like a bat out of hell. One thing I like is that now I never have to adjust the lifters or re-torque the heads. When it had a VW engine I was going through an engine a year. I have had this set up for 8 years now and the only thing that I ever had go wrong is I dropped a valve seat. Also I don't have to drive in the slow lane anymore on the freeway, I can drive 80 to 90 mph. My favorite thing to do is spot a bus the same year as mine on the freeway, pulling up next to it and then just leave it in the dust. Plus, the way the 6 cylinder, dual exhaust sounds: it's so cool!!!!

To do this installation right you should start out with a rebuilt engine and transaxle which could run anywhere from $2,000-3,000 depending on how trick you want it.

The kit costs $600 and comes with everthing you need including instructions with good pictures

Corvair parts are not rare. They are everywhere and can be picked up at a good price. The 2 biggest parts suppliers are Clark's Corvair in Shelburne, Massachusetts, USA and the Corvair Underground in Oregon, USA. They make everything you could ever need for rebuilding a Corvair engine.

not had a problem with geting any parts as yet, and theres a chap with a cross over just installed one with the powerglide auto transmition in the UK, think there might be 5 busses in country now running Corvair motors

done about 900miles since getting mine on the road with no problems, good heat to cab and i think quite quiet when running (never been in bus with standard engine so nothing to compare with at mo)

cheers Peter

 

[simonh]

Well that sounds a lot more do-able! Havecamper, very useful and comprehensive. I need to spend lots of time now digesting the info in it and checking out the links!
Peter - an interesting alternative to Porche.

Cheers

Simon

 

[simonh]

Is anyone able to recommend a company in this area (Hants/Sussex) that has a proven track record of taking on this kind of work?

Many thanks

Simon