Which timing mark?

[Shoddy]

Hi All,

Changed plugs, points, condenser, leads etc other day and I believe I shd now check / adjust timing. It's a stock 1600 TP engine AE code in a 71 bus.

Bought myself a basic timing light and just want to confirm the marks on my pulley wheel so I know which I'm dabbing a White mark on and timing too!

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag206/shoddy73/E3C63F0B-8CCF-4378-827F-ADCD01BAA8FE_zpsczwwcawv.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is the round mark on the outer edge my TDC and the v shaped cut on inner wheel my timing mark? Then I just mark where the case join is and I'm sorted!

Cheers
Craig

 

[StuF]

Have a read here mate - should point you in the correct direction

http://www.volksworld.com/tech-guides/vw-diy-guides/setting-ignition-timing-with-a-strobe-3584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8)

 

[animal]

Hi - Also useul link below ... suggests you have a dimple TDC but notch is ATDC so potentially should be ignored - either way, idle timing is not as important as the max 30 degrees advance under load (3 to 3.5 thousand revs with vacuum disconnected and blocked off)

http://www.vw-resource.com/find_tdc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



to the RIGHT of TDC
7 mm = 5
11 mm = 7.5
46.5 mm = 30 - for 009's at 3000 rp

 

[Shoddy]

Ah well I only bought a basic light so can't check the rpm.

Saw the article on volksworld but I guess the key is still identifying tdc.

I have a feeling the dimple is Tdc because I believed it was the v groove when I set my valve clearances the other month only to discover I'd set them miles apart!

 

[rlepecha]

Well, the max advance is actually when it stops advancing, so basically open the throttle until the white line at 30 doesn't move much in relation to the case marker. Its usually pretty obvious when it stops advancing. The dimple is nearly always TDC. So mark 46.5mm around the circumference from that (to the btdc side)

Sent from my Siswoo C55 using Tapatalk

 

[Shoddy]

Had a bit of a play tonight. When I first replaced plugs I did them at 0.024 but it felt sluggish. Re gapped following night to 0.027 (depending where you look gap size ranges from 0.024-0.028?!). Just taken her out now and she's popping and backfiring under acceleration?!

Just stuck timing light on and at idle she's spot on the 5 degree atdc mark.

Any suggestions?

Cheers
Craig

 

[dustrat]

You say you have a 1600 cc TP AE engine. This engine should have a single vacuum type distributor and the timing should be 7.5 degs BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTRE not 5 degs ATDC. If you have the origional crankshaft pulley fitted there should be 3 indentations on pulley. The one on left is TDC next 5 degs btdc and lastley 7.5 degs btdc.As stated previously you can run the engine to maximum revs which will be about 30 degs and then set timing. :idea: Hope you solve problem.
Robert

 

[Moseley]

The only safe way to confirm the markings on your pulley is using the pencil (I use a wooden skewer) down the number 1 spark plug hole. Do and you won't be having a guessing game or risking damage to your engine.

There are a multitude of different pulleys that VW fitted to various engine codes over the years, if you can't guarantee that yours is original, do the stick test first.

 

[Shoddy]

Hi... Just spoke with my local VW garage and popping it down for them to check. They said if I've only just changed the plugs/points and have them gapped right the timing should still be ok. I've probably made a school boy error!

According to Haynes manual my engine should be the 5 ATDC. But I will try pencil test to confirm.

Quickly checked my leads were correct this morn before work and taking the market on side of dizzy as against no.1, mine then goes 2,3,4 anti clockwise. I did the plugs one by one so wouldn't think leads were now mixed up.

Cheers for advice
Craig

 

[matt-me]

Double check it is the correct dizzy for your engine, it may have been swapped out at some time..

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#B1971" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Shoddy]

Made some progress! Triple checked everything last night and it seems points gap wasn't how I thought I had originally set it! Once slightly widened I took for another spin and running much better. Just had one slight hesitation and pop sound after backing off from cruising at just over 50 then accelerating again. Will keep an eye on it but hopefully sorted.

No adjustment to timing neither....?! Seem to have had those saying if you are just changing plugs and points etc the no need to touch timing at all if fine before. Then others saying if you change points you need to do timing?!

Cheers
Craig

 

[hobbo]

Check that the firing order is correct should be 1432. Seems I was writing this as you were replying to say it was solved check the times.

 

[Shoddy]

Think I spoke to soon earlier... Sob sob. Fired her up tonight and she's struggling to make it into choke. Try giving her revs and she holds back than starts the popping and back firing. Points gap still fine!

I do have a no.3 exhaust valve that we are struggling to get clearance on. We were hoping to survive and pull out end of summer as mechanic said block needs to come apart. Do you think this could be the cause if she's got worse?!

Cheers
Craig

 

[Shoddy]

Daily update!..... Just spent last couple of hours starting from scratch. Someone suggested sticking old condenser back on so I have. Had points off and made sure they were clean and gapped again.

Timed it up on idle to the v mark on my pulley wheel (believed to be the atdc). and took for a quick spin in the village.....very sluggish and struggling to accelerate. Returned to garage and got gun out again.

Marked 46.5 mm to the right of the dimple (dimple believed to be TDC). Removed vacuum hose from side of dizzy and taped over the ends. Fired her up and started to increase revs.....she only managed to get about half way between TDC and the 46.5mm before the mark stopped moving (my ears were hurting). So I tweaked the dizzy round until when I revved her again we did reach the 46.5mm mark.

Back out for a drive and she seems slower accelerating at lower down revs but we are managing to get up to speed and cruising at 50 with no sign of popping etc. Just seems slower getting up to speed.

So couple of questions as I feel there's still some tuning to be done :-

1. Was I correct in removing and blocking the vacuum pipe when setting to the 46.5mm?

2. Should I try dropping the gap back a bit and aiming for 40mm to improve the acceleration or slight increase the other way?

Appreciate help guys.... I keep getting tempted to give in and get a garage to sort but then I'll never master the art :0(

Cheers
Craig

 

[Moseley]

You're still playing a guessing game using the methods you suggest. Confirm the TDC mark on the pulley first. You currently do not know that you are dynamically timing it to the right advance.

Secondly, confirm the distributor you are using. The timing method and whether you plug / unplug the vac can (if you have one) will depend on the type of distributor you have.

 

[Shoddy]

So stick test is next job to confirm tdc mark on pulley.

In terms of dizzy it has the round vacuum attached to side and a pipe running from that to carb. What else do I need to ID on this?

 

[matt-me]

the number on the side of the distributor, then check it against the numbers in that link I posted. A while ago I had similar troubles trying to time an engine assuming the BTDC standard set of criteria. Then checked the code against the website to find I should have been timing ATDC for the dizzy in question, totally different set of criteria. It's more about the dizzy I think than the engine. Granted the timing seems correct for your engine but that would assume the dizzy hasn't been changed over at any time. Your looking for a number starting with the VW or Bosch...like in this link

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FAQ/images/42-Distributor.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Shoddy]

Thanks fella I will see if I can hunt down a code on it and get that confirmed too!

 

[matt-me]

no probs, that link also tells you whether to time with vac pipe connected or not, depending on dizzy (i didn't know that..)

 

[Shoddy]

Well from what I can see on the dizzy the code looks very much like yours above! Majority of the code is hidden behind it and I don't play on turning things around even more. But I can see the jfud4 then 0231....

Now trying to confirm TDC using a length of wooden dowel didn't work too well as pretty sure it's eaten some of it! But it does see. To match up with the dimple on the pulley.

So based on the article on the oldvolkshome they are showing 22-25 degrees at 3800rpm. Guessing this is where it should stop advancing. I currently have mine set at 30 degrees. Can't see no mention re removing the vacuum hose or not though?

Cheers
Craig