won't start when hot?

[72crewdude]

Hi all. so I have had an issue with my bus since I got it. Once I start a journey if I stop even early on to go fuel up at the petrol station it wont start again and needs bumping.

So if I loose revs and conk out I'm knackered ! once I get where I'm going and say the morning after it fires up straight away.

I have been changing parts trying to get to the bottom of it. It might not be the fact that its hot but I think it is.

New battery ,new starter motor (but used), new alternator , new coil and ignition leads.

still the same.

Any ideas ?

 

[ozziedog]

Firstly, may be worth determining if it’s getting way too hot. Usually you can smell it once you open the noisy cupboard but if not go careful with this, is the dipstick too hot to handle comfortably, and just in case it is, try touching first off with the back of your fingers before you just grab it like a red hot poker. It’s only a rough measurement but if it’s too hot to hold then you’ve got overheating issues. My first thing would to be to give it a nice little service because that is exactly how it would respond if the valve clearances had gotten a bit tight, so valves, points and condenser, check and clean points gap but an iffy condenser can do all that stuff you mentioned. Last but not least is have you had a hot start relay fitted. If not, now’s a good time as this is a weak point on the electrical bits on these vans because the juice has so far to go up to the ignition switch and back to the starter. Do the valves stone cold, then go for a little test, let it cool a bit then do your points, then same again then condenser. Try to find out exactly what it is rather than do everything and still be none the wiser about what the actual issue was.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,good luck bud.

 

[Moseley]

When you say it won’t start, what is the issue? Turns over but won’t fire? Won’t turn over or slow to crank?

 

[72crewdude]

Firstly, may be worth determining if it’s getting way too hot. Usually you can smell it once you open the noisy cupboard but if not go careful with this, is the dipstick too hot to handle comfortably, and just in case it is, try touching first off with the back of your fingers before you just grab it like a red hot poker. It’s only a rough measurement but if it’s too hot to hold then you’ve got overheating issues. My first thing would to be to give it a nice little service because that is exactly how it would respond if the valve clearances had gotten a bit tight, so valves, points and condenser, check and clean points gap but an iffy condenser can do all that stuff you mentioned. Last but not least is have you had a hot start relay fitted. If not, now’s a good time as this is a weak point on the electrical bits on these vans because the juice has so far to go up to the ignition switch and back to the starter. Do the valves stone cold, then go for a little test, let it cool a bit then do your points, then same again then condenser. Try to find out exactly what it is rather than do everything and still be none the wiser about what the actual issue was.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,good luck bud.

Cheers , hot start relay was my next bit

 

[72crewdude]

When you say it won’t start, what is the issue? Turns over but won’t fire? Won’t turn over or slow to crank?

Nothing at all , like the battery is dead or goosed hence why that was my first port of call ‍♂

 

[mike202]

Sounds like the starter motor, does it click when you turn the key. Have you tried tapping it with a hammer to see if the solenoid is stuck?

 

[ozziedog]

The hot start relay is a really worthwhile mod anyhow, so do that anyhow and try your hardest to just change one and one thing only, then go for a test drive after every change, just so you can prove you’ve found what it was.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,and still reset your valves

 

[Jakep]

Sorry to jump onto your thread,

But I have the same issue, once she’s hot, if i turn her off I can’t start her again instantly, but if I leave her for a minute or so then she won’t start until she’s cooled down, just turns over and over and over making no attempt to start,

I thought it would be fuel evaporating but I turned her over until the battery almost died once and she didn’t fire back up (until she had cooled down 30 mins later) I’d have thought that would have been long enough for the fuel to travel through

Takes a little bit of enjoyment away from her as I can’t nip to the shop or anything,

Again sorry for jumping on your post, I can make a new thread if you’d prefer?

Jake

 

[mike202]

Sorry to jump onto your thread,

But I have the same issue, once she’s hot, if i turn her off I can’t start her again instantly, but if I leave her for a minute or so then she won’t start until she’s cooled down, just turns over and over and over making no attempt to start,

I thought it would be fuel evaporating but I turned her over until the battery almost died once and she didn’t fire back up (until she had cooled down 30 mins later) I’d have thought that would have been long enough for the fuel to travel through

Takes a little bit of enjoyment away from her as I can’t nip to the shop or anything,

Again sorry for jumping on your post, I can make a new thread if you’d prefer?

Jake

Your problem with re-starting is different to the OP’s as that sounds to be an electrical problem. Yours sounds like a carb issue. Why don’t you start a new thread with some pics of your engine so everyone knows what you have.

 

[CleoMar]

I agree with Mike. Check the starter solenoid.
The other situation of not starting when hot could be the Distributor. Check the cap to see if it has any hairline cracks which expand when hot and a restart may not be possible until cooled off and any crack shrinks back.

 

[67panel]

Worth checking battery volts when cranking hot, if its less than 10V battery faulty.

 

[72crewdude]

Sounds like the starter motor, does it click when you turn the key. Have you tried tapping it with a hammer to see if the solenoid is stuck?

no nothing at all. I had that issue in the past with the old starter and a tap did work. problem is my bus is soo low you need to jack it up to get to it so no good when out and about.

 

[72crewdude]

Thanks guys. very helpful info to get it sorted here.

 

[ozziedog]

Now we’ve heard a bit more, I’m not thinking along the same lines, if it’s not even turning over then I’d be trying all the bigger cables like your battery leads and actually undo them and take them off and clean both ends thoroughly including where the earths hit , gearbox one as well. I fell foul recently of my earth lead from the battery was totally goosed behind that little triangle where it is fitted from the battery, but it was hidden by the triangle where the break was.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,strange innit!

 

[yoda]

Ignition coil. Try swap or buy a new one

 

[67panel]

If it's doing nothing at all then check the connection from ignition switch to starter as they do corrode

 

[NickP]

If it's doing nothing at all then check the connection from ignition switch to starter as they do corrode

To add to that, a hot start relay (HSR) won't help if the issue is around the ignition switch area.
If you find it's still dead after fitting the HSR, run a wire from the battery +ve terminal and touch it on the HSR relay 86 contact to operate the HSR. If it then starts the issue is either the ignition switch, or the wiring to the ignition switch.
In any case, an HSR is an excellent idea, to take the load off 50+ year old ignition switches!

 

[67panel]

Yes, my bus has relays for ignition as well as starter to cut volt drop. Its a long way from the battery to the front and back to the engine! and the pattern ign switches are poor.

 

[NickP]

A little story about suddenly finding my bus starter was dead after stopping for an afternoon cuppa.
Back in '86 we drove an ex Dutch post office Kombi through Africa (many stories there of course!).
One afternoon in Tanzania we stopped for our afternoon cuppa as usual, and jumping back in turned the ignition key and.... nadda. Dashboard lights etc came on but no starter solenoid click, nothing.
One look underneath and the wire to the solenoid had broken at the terminal, so potentially a quick and easy fix......
...Until a tsefly landed on my hand and gave me a really painful stab. It was quickly joined by all its family, friends and cousins, and we realised we'd entered the dreaded tsefly belt, where great care had to be taken to not be bitten by these critters because of various exotic diseases they carried.
Never was a repair done so quickly, and I remember the next few days being hell getting through the belt, and keeping them out of the bus and away from us!
Moral of the story.... Always check the wire to the starter solenoid when entering tsefly areas

 

[ozziedog]

Unfortunately, looking out the windows just about now, I’m more likely to drown than get bitten by any tsefly or any of his family.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,, summer seems an impossible memory already