Bus towbar-Made so you can use a regular car to TOW your Bus

[Anonymous]

Imagine picking up your Splitty/Bay from the dock without the hassle of hiring a trailer!

so what did you mean by this? surely its illegal unless of course your name is Vanagonman?

Your wrong about AA/RAC cover, it depends on your level of cover and if you go for the cheap option they will charge you a small fee which isn't that much, thats assuming you've broken down more than 3 times depending on distance from your house/nearist mechanic.

So in summary i have to go hire a car with a bar, or go get my car which i've payed @£150 for a towbar ball to have fitted, i then have to splash out on the light bar for the back of the van probably @£100ish? i've got to get home get my car get back to my van, I've also bought the towing A frame @£200ish new? seems pretty expensive compared to calling the AA/RAC.

i think in the case of most breakdowns they would be fixable on the spot (AA/RAC figures show 90% of breakdowns are fixed on the spot) thus not using up any of your yearly tows. Makes a good case to get cover.

In the majority of cases van towed from home to the work shop would not normally have MOT and tax as they were probably non-running in the first place.

Maybe i'm being a little harsh but it seems like an awful waste of money? of course i could have US citizenship, have the van on US plates and insurance and tow it to and from the dock/mechanics as and when i please?

dont think that you wont get nicked. I was stopped for nearly an hour by two coppers who didnt quite know if i was legal or not. I was towing the van with a landrover on a twin axled and breaked trailer, because the van was over 750kgs, some sweet talking and pointing out that i was legal they made me aware that by UK law i had to have an extra addendum on my licence just to two the van due to the weigh of the vehicle on tow. This means going for an extra towing trailer test.

Make some good points there. My splitty actually didn't start at the dock. So a device like this would have been a Godsend at the time. Despite the fact it was US registered, RAC came and helped me. Then it broke down again and then a third time trying to bring it back to London. On the third attempt (the starter failed) they decided to flatbed me home.

Then I got a letter stating I was about to exceed my breakdown allowance (RAC in my case).

I'm not wrong about the cover. I have the second-to-highest cover (level 3) and they sent me a letter saying that if I call them out again, a tow will cost over 100 pounds and will have to be prepaid as I have exceeded my breakdown allowance. Call up the RAC and they will tell you there is always limits. There is no such thing as unlimited breakdown assistance. :roll:

If I had the device, I could have called a mate when I discovered it broke down and legally drive it home. He already has a car with a towbar, so it would've cause me/him nawt. An A-frame or this device will cost you appx. 150 quid.

 

[Loxy]

Problem with AA, RAC, etc. is that there is a limit per year on how many times you can call them out. After that, they won't help you.

Perhaps a little servicing wouldnt go amiss
:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Problem with AA, RAC, etc. is that there is a limit per year on how many times you can call them out. After that, they won't help you.

Perhaps a little servicing wouldnt go amiss
:lol:

Funnily, when I was in the AA, they sent me a similar letter, and it actually said that I should look to buy a newer car and then provided me with one of their partner's auto purchasing company! The cheek!! (at the time, the offending car I owned was an old Sierra)

 

[Guest]

just called traffic branch of the PSNI, the law here applies across the regions in the UK. i put several scenarios to him and he said he'll get back to me as he was sure about the A frame being legal.

He did mention the conditions on your own licence are a big part of whether you personally were legal to drive with younger drivers not able to exceed a maximum load whereas older drivers are allowed to tow over a certain weigh limit. Any higher and a special test must be taken to add categories to your licence.

 

[Guest]

found this.

Note on A-Frames and Dollies, issued by the Department for Transport

When an "A" frame is attached to a vehicle (e.g. a motor car) and towed by a motor vehicle (e.g. motorhome) we believe the "A" frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer. As a consequence the car and A-frame are required to meet the technical requirements for trailers when used on the road in Great Britain. These requirements are contained within the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986/1078) as amended (C&U) and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (SI 1989/1796) as amended (RVLR).

Trailers having a combined axle mass not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly. The regulations do not include design constraints on how this should be achieved but, for example, it could be met by direct linking of the trailer brakes to the brake system of the towing vehicle or by automatic inertia (overrun) operation via the towing hitch. Inertia systems can only be used for trailers with a maximum combined axle mass of 3500kg.

Regulations 15 and 16 set out the braking requirements - including minimum braking efficiencies for trailer brakes. Subject to certain age exemptions, the regulation requires the braking system to comply with the construction, fitting and performance requirements of European Community Directive 71/320/EEC along with its various amending Directives. The most recent consolidated directive is 98/12/EC. Alternatively the braking system can comply with the corresponding UNECE Regulation No.13.09.

In addition, C&U Regulation 18 requires the braking system to be maintained in good and efficient working order. If the brakes of the towing vehicle do not directly operate the trailer brakes the use of an inertia (overrun) system is acceptable. If the trailer braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required while in motion to meet the required braking efficiencies. This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency. To prevent the trailer being used illegally a remote vacuum pump, powered from the tow vehicle, could be installed to recharge the reservoir, alternatively a source could be made available from the tow vehicle. From 1 October 1988 the inertia braking system was required to allow the trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically. This will be very difficult to achieve on an "A" frame using an inertia (overrun) device.

Other provisions from Regulation 15 and Regulation 86A of C&U require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system in which the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates whilst the combination is in motion. Alternatively, in the case of trailers up to a maximum mass of 1500kg, the drawbar must be prevented from touching the ground and the trailer able to retain some residual steering.

Whilst being towed, trailers are subject to the relevant requirements given in RVLR, including the use of triangular red reflectors. There would be further requirements for the display of the appropriate number plate, etc.

The use of "dollies" is intended for the recovery of broken down vehicles, not for the transportation of a vehicle from "A" to "B". Under Regulation 83 of C&U a motor car is permitted to tow two trailers when one of them is a towing implement and the other is secured to and either rests on or is suspended from the implement. Therefore as a trailer if the maximum laden weight of the dolly exceeds 750 kg it must be fitted with operational brakes, additionally the brakes on the wheels of the second trailer (the towed car) must work and meet the specified requirements. Again this would be very difficult for the rear brakes of a motor car, on their own, to meet the 50% braking efficiency required for a trailer. The dolly would also be required by Regulation 22 of C&U to be fitted with suspension. Regulations 19 and 22 in C&U permit a broken down vehicle to be recovered without complying with these requirements. However, there is further legislation under the Road Traffic Act that introduces a limitation on the maximum speed that the combination can be driven; this is 40mph on motorways and 20mph on other roads.

We do not supply copies of legislation but I have included some information on various sources where they can be obtained. If you would like to purchase printed copies of Statutory Instruments these are available from TSO:

The Stationery Office Tel: 0870 600 5522
PO Box 29 Fax: 0870 600 5533
St Crispins e-mail: [email protected]
Duke Street online ordering: http://www.tso.co.uk/bookshop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Norwich NR3 1GN

Alternatively you can consult "The Encyclopaedia of Road Traffic Law and Practice" published by Sweet and Maxwell. This publication is updated regularly and is available in most city reference libraries.

EU Directives can be found at:
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/search/search_lif.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UN-ECE Regulations can be found at: http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the above I hope it is clear that we believe the use of "A" frames to tow cars behind other vehicles is legal provided the braking and lighting requirements are met. However, while this is our understanding of the meaning of the Regulations, it is only the Courts which can reach a definitive interpretation of the law.
Alan Mendelson
Primary Safety Branch
Department for Transport

in summary you MUST have a secondary braking system for the van being towed using its brakes and the A frame MUST have a secondary stopping system for the van should the a frame become disengaged. the first very difficult and probably expensive to achieve and the second almost impossible to achieve. Also you must not exceed 40mph on motorways and 20 on a roads.

Looks quite illegal now. I do remember being towed by the RAC similar to this but i was steering and the inertia factor braking made this legal because the combined weight was less than 3500kgs whilst being towed.

Effectively the van is seen as a trailer if pulled with an a frame. As your van will weigh around 2300kgs (unladen) a secondary braking system is required for anything over 750kgs

the kerb weigh of my golf plus is 1600kgs thus it would be illegal for me to tow my van on an a frame without assisted braking on the van, and the dissengagement device fitted to the van. Ive never come across anything like this fitted to a VW... have you?

 

[Anonymous]

No Johnny it is legal.

See this part:

The use of "dollies" is intended for the recovery of broken down vehicles, not for the transportation of a vehicle from "A" to "B"

So, once again, if your vehicle is broken down, it's allowed.

If your vehicle is fully operational, then it must weigh less than 750kgs if it is unbraked (e.g. quadricycle) or you can use a brake assist fitted (eg secondary braking) then it becomes legal. This only applies to operational vehicles (like what motorhomes pull - e.g. dingys)

This has been discussed at length in the SSVC forum and this issue has been touched on.

 

[Justin & Muttley]

I don't think you understand the definition of a breakdown...

My splitty actually didn't start at the dock.

This isn't a breakdown.

 

[Graham L]

I think this is really funny now as it appears that our man is trying to wind all the forums up at the same time, exactly the same posting on SSVC here http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61270&p=474608#p474608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and all the same points being made but once again no matter what anyone says he is right :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[flynster]

just lock the post, enuff said already :evil:
troublemaker........wind it in :lol:

 

[downsouth]

fight fight.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[bobley]

 

[mattd1984]

You beat me to it!!

 

[Guest]

No Johnny it is legal.

See this part:

The use of "dollies" is intended for the recovery of broken down vehicles, not for the transportation of a vehicle from "A" to "B"

So, once again, if your vehicle is broken down, it's allowed.

If your vehicle is fully operational, then it must weigh less than 750kgs if it is unbraked (e.g. quadricycle) or you can use a brake assist fitted (eg secondary braking) then it becomes legal. This only applies to operational vehicles (like what motorhomes pull - e.g. dingys)

This has been discussed at length in the SSVC forum and this issue has been touched on.

It is ONLY legal if you are running a secondary braking system the uses the vans brakes which i guess you are!? :roll:

who the f**k is going to have a secondary braking system fitted to their van, or for that matter a van on import at the docks?.

Once again you pick the points that suit your argument and ignore the over-ridding points, I'm beginning to think you are retarded.

this thread is totally pointless and is now locked.