Camper and Commercial Mag - Any feedback?

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As David is a member on here im sure hes reading the critisism and praise,

My problem is i find it hard to get C and C over here, and i suppose i should subscribe :oops: For me C and C is for a different type of demographic than Volksworld, I like both mags. I find the articles on camping and travel in C and C really interesting. I guess its down to economics on how creative a mag can be?

My missus was reading her favorite mag and in the editors section it said this would be the last issue as they couldnt keep going under the current climate, i'm glad to have both mags and try to support them, and to be able to read two different takes on the VW scene. :|
 
buy them, increase budget, more pages, more articles. both probably have same amount of content as C and C has less ads.

these mags are very minor subscriptions in the world of publishing so fee thankful we have them.

ps did you see how many T4s andT5s were at Vanfest this year...to ignore them would be business suicide ;)
 
Nic B-C said:
buy them, increase budget, more pages, more articles. both probably have same amount of content as C and C has less ads.

agreed (without counting words, photos etc.).

Nic B-C said:
these mags are very minor subscriptions in the world of publishing so fee thankful we have them.

agreed.

Nic B-C said:
ps did you see how many T4s andT5s were at Vanfest this year...to ignore them would be business suicide ;)

vanfest ? i can't comment... i stopped going when it turned into fields of T4/5s :x
 
Nic B-C said:
ps did you see how many T4s andT5s were at Vanfest this year...to ignore them would be business suicide ;)

In one way yes, but if it means I stop buying because I have no interest then it's counterproductive. They may be the modern equivalent of our vans but so what - I won't pick up ideas or inspiration from them. I'm not even envious!
 
Mike F said:
Nic B-C said:
ps did you see how many T4s andT5s were at Vanfest this year...to ignore them would be business suicide ;)

In one way yes, but if it means I stop buying because I have no interest then it's counterproductive. They may be the modern equivalent of our vans but so what - I won't pick up ideas or inspiration from them. I'm not even envious!


and conversely some people will have no interest in early bays, bays in general, splitties,matadors, coachbuilts, its a general Camper mag not an early bay specific mag and if the general buzz at shows is later buses and these people have a disposable wad would be stupid to leave them out especially at the expense of a couple of bay owners.
 
ant said:
interesting discussion this...... i can see both sides, please continue

ha ha ha... i've got a, well a very minor rant i feel all typed out, and then i wasn't going to bother given how genteel this place is... but what the hell... a little 'discussion' never hurt anybody :p
 
Nic B-C said:
early bays, bays in general, splitties,matadors, coachbuilts, its a general Camper mag not an early bay specific mag

it's almost impossible to argue because a) you're right and b) well that's it really

BUT

it's like jazz i guess...

every type of bus you mentioned up there at the top i'm interested in... i might (won't) never own a splitty, or a matador, or a jurgens autovilla but i'm still interested in them... that's what i buy the magazine for... to be educated, and to be inspired.

how about the matador the bus barn people are building at the moment ? my cup of tea ?

YEAH.

featured in a magazine ?

yeah... for about three lines :? one of the rarest of all the VWs (ok i KNOW it's not a vw but you know what i mean) and it gets like a passing mention.

then you think of all the *moderately lowered* ( :roll: ) stuff that's been in the magazines lately, and that's great, but there's LOADS more i've never seen featured (the crazy mid engined BMW thing is the big omission for me, but there's loads) and then you've got the glut of recently imported buses, or even the ones imported say this decade, and if you believe the magazines (it was eccles' quote i think ?) that adds up to thousands... then there's the everyday bog standard buses that turn up to show after show after show and you know there's a story behind them all, be they barndoor or silverfish, they've all been around the block, and they all have a tale to tell.

so why take up space with 'new' stuff ?

i don't get it :?

like that 'lucky boy' off here and his tale of his new engine... 486,000 miles that bus has done :shock: has it been featured ? if so, ace, if not, why not ?

486,000 miles in 40 years.

if only metal could speak.

oh, but there's no room in this month's issue because we're featuring ANOTHER T4 that started off as a panel van, had some plastic units screwed into it, a set of 17" alloys bolted on and a chequered bonnet bra.

and here's some pictures of the owners cooking some eggs by a lake in italy.

I DON'T WANT TO LOOK AT PICTURES OF EGGS BEING FRIED IN ITALY :x

volkswagen camper, bus, commercial, converted AA van and overseas holiday monthly.

hasn't got the same ring i guess.
 
Damn straight should be bloody pasta in Italy!!!!


Have you seen the Matador for sale in Ultra I think this month pretty damn cheap!
 
oh dear....bit of a depressing read for me this....am going to mull over the fair criticisms made cos there are some and come back to answer some
the old adage about never pleasing all the people all the time is spot on..and if we please most of the people some of the time that has to be my starting point...
I know every so often a thread comes up on forums about how a crap this or that mag is so I wont go buy razor blades just yet however :wink:
One thing I am clear about which will not change is trying to reflect the whole bus scene rather than segements..so yes T3 and T4 and sometimes T5 will be featured along with the Splits and Bays...so if thats not to your taste sorry but the readership base is very wide and it would be unfair to not reflect this...
but I do listen and like to think every bus has a story worth telling...hopefully in 2009 some that you like..
more later...
 
David
firstly Thanks for replying to the thread , Yes it is a tricky subject to cover and I hope you havnt bought your Razor blades just yet ...... I think the point i personally wanted to get over was that a few years ago C an C was at the Top of the game and everybody had to buy it even when we had to wait three months for it :wink: . Now i firmly believe that your mantle has slipped and i would hope that reading this thread pushes you and the team to try harder and get back up there . Yes you do cover all the scene and i for one do like T3s and T4s ( Cue Abuse from the Councillor ) and I sometimes enjoy reading about the articles on these vans .
I think ultimatly people i.e the magazines are AT last starting to recogonise the fact that there are better looking and better modified bays out there and it does'nt have to be a split to be feature worthy

Gadget
 
Just to add, surely its the human nature that makes us rant more about the things we dislike and less about the things were happy with.
You buy things you like for example and keep buying them but you rarely say to the seller " this is great, i love it, im pleased with it" so they dont get a true picture of how people like thier goods, but we are quick enougth to complain when we are not happy with them.
I like reading about aircooled buses because i have one but i still want to read about other stuff as well, before i had my bus i had a T4 and still have but that didnt stop me from buying the mags because thier was too much air cooled in it, before you consider changing the mag why dont you ask the buyers to tell you what they want to see in the next issue that way you will have a better idea whos buying.you will never please everyone. :) It would be interesting to see other responses on dedicated forums to the same thread.
 
right, for once i'm going to just try and type something out rather than obsessively just check back through past issues so bear with any minor factual inaccuracies :oops:

i've been thinking about how to express myself on this subject.

i think i've got it :idea:

imagine you subscribe to a magazine called 'practical electronics'. i've been a bit of a dab hand with a soldering iron myself in the past so that's not too far fetched. there's features on all the latest stuff, which valves offer best value for money... where you can get the best variable resistors and so on and every month there's a circuit you can build up... a light-activated anti-burglar device, or a simple medium wave radio... actually, thinking about this, ISN'T there a magazine like this ? (see cheeky footnote :wink: )

you buy it, you read it, you build up the circuits and you store them all obsessively in date order in your bedroom with the poster of *that* tennis girl or a weeping clown or whatever takes your fancy.

one day there's a new feature... *THE INTEGRATED CIRCUIT*

does everything your poxy valves and capacitors do in a millionth of the time and at a fraction of the cost... new centre feature... buy transistor, plug in, the end.

cue hundreds of complaining letters.

but the magazine is called "practical electronics" not 'old fashioned electronics for dinosaurs stuck in the past' - the ICs stay.

is that a reasonable analogy ?

now, like i say, i ain't gonna check, and my production knowledge of 'late' VW buses is nil, but the T5 DEFINITELY didn't exist when vwc&c came out... dunno about the T4, but i don't remember them featuring in the early issues.

now i got called a 'snob' about this over on vzi, but why do they belong in the magazine ? apart from the two letters on the roundel ?

i must admit i'm not the biggest vw fan in the world... it's my wife's bus after all, but even i admit the type 2 has a quirky charm all of its own, what with the engine and the suspension and just the overall styling, which is why i guess they warrant magazines dedicated entirely to them, and why there's no equivalent ford thames or commer publication.

T4s and T5s share none of the type 2 lineage at all... apart from the badge... they're just the same as a mercedes or a ford or a renault or any other 'big' modern van.

i don't dislike them, but for me the thrill with electronics was always assembling the graphite rod, and winding the copper coils, and sourcing the components, soldering it up, and if you were lucky you'd connect a battery and out would come a crackly bob azurdia on radio merseyside... a few years ago i bought mrs councillor a digital radio for christmas... perfect sound quality, thousands of stations but it's just, well, dull isn't it ?

i *think* that's what i *think* is the problem with late buses in the magazines :?

footnote : maybe it went bust... too many transistor features :wink:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as for stuff that isn't me ranting on and on and on i think nic is bang on... it IS a tiny niche market and we're very lucky to have one never mind two dedicated bus magazines.

i thought vwc&c might suffer when volksworld hopped aboard the bus bandwagon but i think it weathered the storm admirably... it definitely has more of a 'homemade' feel to it compared to the more 'polished' volksworld and i mean that in a nice way... i enjoy reading dave's editorials and overall it's just a 'cooler' publication... camper and bus tries a bit too hard sometimes doesn't it, but as i said earlier in the thread i'll continue buying both and hopefully they'll both prosper enough to survive the launch of *ultra bus* :twisted:

aaaaand, families frying eggs apart, i enjoyed re-reading the feature about the blokes who drove the mille miglia course when i had the 'flu, whichever mag that was in, so there IS room for travel stuff... you can please some etc. etc.

:p
 
Have thought about this thread today. I summed up my feelings as that I love earlybays, mainly because by default that's what I own, I quite like late bays but am glad I didn't end up with one. Splits always appealed but were way out of reach, plus being tall I'd apparently hate driving one! I've had a 1303 and enjoy bugs of all types but have never cared much about Golfs.

This surely all explains why t25s, t4s and t5s are of no interest? I can only imagine that these owners may well be interested in our more historic vans as I am in splits - therefore if the mags can survive by including these types it makes sense for them - but it will be without me paying for effectively half a magazine.

Sorry David!
 
I still stand by my original comment - why don't people write in with features - I have twice and its a great feeling to have your bus on the front page in WH Smith...

I am not interested in the T4 and T5 stuff really but will read it as I dont really like all the cars featured in Classic Car every month, but it is nice to have a read or simply turn the page.

Perhaps I am biased as I have bought every issue of C & C... and still enjoy it
 
poor articles about vans which have been featured elsewhere etc

I have to take issue a somwhat with this bit...I always ask an owner if someone else is after it and unlike others do not set out to duplicate stuff...I know the barndoor had been featured before but it was ages back and new owner = new story and some people like to catch up on an bus they saw ages ago...and whats been done to it since..
poor articles..do you mean the writing? If so would apprecaite some ideas about what you think makes a feature readable as feedback face to face is very different (many seem to think quality of writing is what makes us good but I am always looking to how to be a better writer)
and you used to tell me about nice buses worth featuring - word of mouth is how I find features!
also balance wise its not half and half more like 2:1 (ie twice as many split and bays as all other Types)

actually its quite refreshing to be jolted out of the ivory tower - especially when done in a non abusive way - and am happy to listen and take note
AND feature nice Early Bays!!!!
Did you not like the 68 Dormie feature and story in latest issue? Bus all done under tent in drive..I thought it quite amazing! or the USB spread with some rad EBs shown?

PS The mag team is me on me todd!! Luckily people do freelance taking piccies for me and also write stuff and owners also tell their own story as they want...
And I am looking fwd to seeing a load of lovely lowlights at Camperjam in July - and lining up features!
 
Good on you David for not taking the hump! It reflects the nature of this forum which is generally very tolerant and supportive.

Just out of interest - and not a windup or criticism but a suggestion for even more customers - if you feature water cooled vans why not go the whole hog and feature any make of van? Surely for newer vans it's the design & quality of the interior and paintwork rather than restoration which is the main part of the story?
 
when I started getting to know the T3 and T4 owners I found the same driving passion for their bus as any Split or Bay owner. Granted theres a lot of motor caravan types with them but the T4 show scene is amazing..what they did for each other to have fun at Vanfest was awesome. Besides Ducat owners dont wave and smile :shock:
not sure if you are being ironic but though they dont fire my soul they DO for others. I look in here and T4 forum for friendly and imformative chat .other forums have lost the plot or descend into swearing endlessly. I get the same vibe from EB owners as the Brickyard / Vanarchy T3 lot or T4 forum ...
any mag that just covers a narrow niche will die ... thank god for the SSVC magazine and similar! means I get a Split fix all year!
 
David Eccles said:
any mag that just covers a narrow niche will die ...

I do understand - it is a commercial operation in the end. I also understand what you say about the other forums - my mate is a keen brickyard user. You have a reason for browsing, and great that you are also interested, it's just that I'm not!

In a way I was being ironic, but the way you don't have other vans firing your soul is the way I feel about the unread parts of your mag.


All the best...
 
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