Hydrogen conversions on Bay campers? anyone done one?

[Toad]

Hi there, just wondering if anyone has done one? How successfull?, and if so can they give a hand with info?
Thanks
T

 

[Araon]

Scott wilsons been talking to a supplier but if you drop me your emailI have some plans you can have to buil your own and some links somewhere...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQdrfSySI&feature=PlayList&p=F1F0B890547184C8&index=0&playnext=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

try watching this guys vids....

 

[froggy]

This was covered the other day on Mythbusters (some crazy yank program on discovery) and although it can be made to work it didn't improve consumption and made the engine run / perform worse than stock, they tried numerous 'get more mpg' devices and to be honest none of them worked.
If you want more better mileage for your money then personally i would consider an LPG kit

 

[Guest]

this guy is on to something....

http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=EletrikRide&view=videos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:shock:

 

[Toad]

Thanks for your help on this, will report back!
M

 

[Araon]

Yeah just had a look at his gen IV dry cell, now thats looking good, small enough to stash away in the engine bay.....

just need a source of free stainless steel plates.....

 

[Benyon]

I have seen it done with the bottom three inches of the inner and outer parts of a stainless steel vacuum flask seperated by straws/silicon...

 

[Trikky2]

Sorry to burst the bubble but anybody with even the most basic understanding of physics and chemistry would see or at least be able to reason that this whole hydrogen thing is laughable.

That there are still people who believe in it and worse still, pay money to others for components (read rip off) is a clear sign that there is a severe problem in the education system.

This stuff is in the same category as little plastic bags of balls of solder that you can put in the fuel tank to put the lead back in and the fuel economiser valves that fit in the fuel line to the carb etc etc....

Contrary to what so many seem to belive - theres a lot of dodgy sites and info on the web. Just because its been made to look good on a website with nice photos and write ups does not make it reliable, accurate or right.

Think. Or do some proper research and look in reputable scientific books and publications.

 

[Araon]

Please explain further Trikky2?

in what way is it laughable?

Hydrogen is firmly entrenched in the scientific community, the main issues are producing and storing enough to run a vehicle entirely on HHO, the seperation of Hydrogen and oxygen is a well known principal and most of your fuel suppliers are indeed working on methods to improve on these..

These fuel from water systems do indeed have variable results and are on the whole used by amateurs and experimentors, plus you need to remember that they are purely used to supplement the petrol or diesel and very few will run a car on one as the amout that would need to be produced is unreal. However theres plenty of people running small engines solely on Hydroxy produced by the engine in question.

yes theres a **** load of bunkum out there and people selling kits at ridiculous prices, but look into it further there are many systems available for free, many supported by creditable proffesssionals within the scientific communities and the USAs DOT are heavilly involved.

BMW/Honda/Toyota all have a hydrogen car in production

Infact in Japan they are rolling out H pumps in there fuel stations

so to ridicule Hydrogen is a bit of a bizare statement, ridiculing some kits producing on demand is still a bit out there, you recommend people "Think. Or do some proper research and look in reputable scientific books and publications"

maybe you should take that advise yourself try with these

[email protected]

Water Car - How to Turn Water Into Hydrogen Fuel! by J A Robey a historical view of hydrogen prouction on board vehicles.
Fuel from Water: Energy Independence with Hydrogen by M A Peavey
The Hype About Hydrogen: Fact and Fiction in the Race to Save the Climate by J J Romm very good pros and cons perspective......

 

[rustydiver]

watched that somewhere in the US Honda is trialing Hydrogen cars for a fixed monthly rate customers can have a new car, Hydrogen maker installed in their house so that they can fill up at home, this is also being looked into to supply the customers homes with power/ heating via their Hydrogen maker.

 

[Trikky2]

The examples quoted of hydrogen cars are not relavant.

Yes engines can run on hydrogen - this has been a known fact for a great number of years.

As already quoted, theres been a problem with its storage, which is being adressed by the latest technology enabling hydrogen to be released rather than stored at high pressures in very heavy and thick walled containers. This too is not relevant.

My comments were very explicitly aimed at the "kits" ---- which are a joke.

Firstly look at the quantity of hydrogen produced - then look at the quantity of hydrogen needed. Simple maths.

However theres plenty of people running small engines solely on Hydroxy produced by the engine in question.

----- this is simply not true.

Hydrogen will not burn on its own. The burning prcess makes two hydrogen atoms attach themselves to one oxygen atom. This makes H2O water. This reaction something unusual since it can be easily reversed by passing an electric current (electrolysis) through the water to seperate the atoms and one is left with the two gasses.

Since you cannot create energy out of nothing (unfortunately) then its fairly obvios that the reversal of this process is going to cost the same energy it took to create the water in the first place. eg if burning a given quantity of hydrogen and oxygen gives a given amount of energy then reversing the process will take the same amount of energy. If this were not so then we would have perpetual motion machines and unlimited free energy.

Now given a perfect engine, 100% efficient, zero friction, zero heat losses, perfect electrical cunductance for all wiring, zero heat generation in the electrolysis process, zero friction in the generator etc etc.. then you would be able to run an engine on its own produced energy ---- But it would still only just run itself. (perpetual motion). As soon as you tried to take any power from it to run or do anything else, it would start to consume more power than it produced.

Since we dont have 100% efficient engines, electrics etc we cannot even produce perpetual motion and if you want to draw power off the egine you would be creating enery from nothing which would be quite a breakthorough, turning our whole understanding and science upside down by breaking the basic priciples we know govern how the universe works.

Hope I have explained this in an understandable way

 

[Benyon]

I understand that creating a system to run the engine purely on Hydrogen in this way is not possible, certainly for the 'experimentors' amongst us, but surely it can still be used as an additive to the existing petrol engine on our vans?

 

[Trikky2]

I understand that creating a system to run the engine purely on Hydrogen in this way is not possible, certainly for the 'experimentors' amongst us, but surely it can still be used as an additive to the existing petrol engine on our vans?

Feel free to experiment by all means Just remember that you will not get out the energy you put in, due to the considerable losses inherent in the system.

With a very sophisticated computer controlling the system you may be able to use it as a "recuperative losses" system, whereby you might be able to use waste excess energy (such as when going downhill with the throttle shut) to create hydrogen --- but then you need to store it till you need it. The quantities produced are very small compared to what an engine consumes and its quite slow to produce as well.

There are more efficient, simpler and cheaper ways to use the recoup idea, such as generator braking (to charge electrical vehicles) or energy storage in flywheels, which are being devloped.

 

[Toad]

What do you lot make of Stan Meyer and his VW rail that is/was powered solely on water/hydrogen?
Any thoughts?