i think my bakes should be better?

[Bluesnailman]

Hi

Wonder if anyone has a good idea on this.

1968 dual circuit MC(with pressure control valves removed) (lever stop adjustment is ok, haven't measure the rod length but its unlikely to have shortened?)
VW Jim servo
Futbus disks on the front (appear similar to CSP)
standard rear drums setup with CE drums
late bay 'pressure regulator' installed.
all pipes are good, all hoses are relatively new
pads are good uncontaminated, new brake fluid last year
brake pressure through the pedal is progressive, feels like it has servo assistance in the movement, builds to 'cant push any harder' It doesn't sink and pumping it makes little difference
passed MOT fairly recently

In having to pull an emergency stop the other week I was a little surprised, wheels didn't lock up, and even though i pushed as hard as a could I still went further than I'd like. A bit of a skid would have brought me up shorter i think. (brakes were cold, fluid no where near boiling point) Its probably my first emergency brake for a very long time so not sure how it was before.

The only two things I can think of are...

1. is there a right/wrong connection for front and back brake lines from the MC to front/back brakes (i think its the same diameter of diaphragm so would make no difference)
2. is the MC failing is some way (although this would normally be a sinking pedal but without fluid leak)

any ideas people? or any similar experiences.

 

[subheatadey]

Have you got non-return valve fitted to servo and it is the right way round?

 

[Bluesnailman]

Have you got non-return valve fitted to servo and it is the right way round?

Thanks for suggestion, yes one fitted and I suspect it's the right way around, I'll add it to my list.

Anyone else with some thoughts?

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[mike202]

Is your MC the original 1968 one? Maybe the seals aren’t working as well as they used to ?

Thought at first this was a cookery related question[emoji23]

 

[sparkywig]

Thought at first this was a cookery related question[emoji23]

And me.

I've got Futbus brakes (Mk III Golf calipers/Mercedes A Class discs) on the front and CE discs (Mk IV Golf estate) on the rear, no servo or pressure regulator. My brakes are awesome, but I can't lock them up during heavy braking on dry roads.
I think your brakes are fine, you don't ever want to lock the wheels as this won't slow you down or let you retain steering control. Your brakes are most effective just before locking the wheels, this is how ABS systems work.

 

[Bluesnailman]

Well, the kitchen isn't a room in excel in!! Brakes not bakes......

Thanks for the suggestions, I was wondering about the MC, will do more research this evening

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[Bluesnailman]

Thought at first this was a cookery related question[emoji23]

And me.

I've got Futbus brakes (Mk III Golf calipers/Mercedes A Class discs) on the front and CE discs (Mk IV Golf estate) on the rear, no servo or pressure regulator. My brakes are awesome, but I can't lock them up during heavy braking on dry roads.
I think your brakes are fine, you don't ever want to lock the wheels as this won't slow you down or let you retain steering control. Your brakes are most effective just before locking the wheels, this is how ABS systems work.

That's interesting, I would have said they were good before my not stopping quickly enough moment. I'm just thinking that I know there is more grip between current performance and a skid (not that I want to skid, but at least I'd know that the brakes were as good as they could be). Have session booked in mot station next week for them to give me a bit more of an idea on how good or bad they are....

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[K@rlos]

Skidding isn’t good if the tyres are sliding then they aren’t gripping and slowing you down. If they bother you put it on some brake rollers and see what that says. Have you got cheapo pads & shoes? The quality of the linings makes a massive difference.

 

[lemur]

I'm in the 'should be able to lock the wheels up gang', you know for a fact you have all your braking capacity then, and as a competent driver you simply apply the necessary pressure without locking up.
We've all driven modern cars without ABS, we don't skid every time we brake do we? but we could lock the wheels.

Just my personal thoughts on it,
Liam

 

[Bluesnailman]

Skidding isn’t good if the tyres are sliding then they aren’t gripping and slowing you down. If they bother you put it on some brake rollers and see what that says. Have you got cheapo pads & shoes? The quality of the linings makes a massive difference.

Brake rollers on Tuesday, and I think I might try some different pads on the front disks. Most seem to advertise long life and high performance when driven hard.. not sure that's exactly what I'm looking for. Something that grips better at the expense of life would be fine. What should I be looking fo in MK3 golf front pads?

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[K@rlos]

Skidding isn’t good if the tyres are sliding then they aren’t gripping and slowing you down. If they bother you put it on some brake rollers and see what that says. Have you got cheapo pads & shoes? The quality of the linings makes a massive difference.

Brake rollers on Tuesday, and I think I might try some different pads on the front disks. Most seem to advertise long life and high performance when driven hard.. not sure that's exactly what I'm looking for. Something that grips better at the expense of life would be fine. What should I be looking fo in MK3 golf front pads?

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Just try to find a decent quality parts, not sure if golf pads fit? I’ve got EBC red stuff pads in the Porsche/Brembo 4 pots I have on my bus. Don’t know if EBC make pads for OG bus brakes?

 

[purpledog07]

I searched for EBC for my '72 crosser, no joy. They make pads for '73 on and some are listed on ebay for earlies but the listed measurements are incorrect. Most sellers give measurements so just check before you buy.
I have ATE '73 on calipers on bushes with original size '72 disks. Unfortunately, this dictates '72 thin pads.
I ended up buying Brembo pads, they're good quality, readily available at motor factors and at least 1/2 the price of EBC green/redstuff.
ATE brake systems are what was originally fitted and their pads are good if you can find them.
It's worth bleeding your system again to ensure its clean and air free. If you do, ATE dot 4 brake fluid is highly recommended by me, and countless others on classic forums around the world. It' a little expensive but proven over years to perform really well and protect systems well even with irregular/seldom use. Well worth the money to preserve your setup.

 

[Bluesnailman]

I searched for EBC for my '72 crosser, no joy. They make pads for '73 on and some are listed on ebay for earlies but the listed measurements are incorrect. Most sellers give measurements so just check before you buy.
I have ATE '73 on calipers on bushes with original size '72 disks. Unfortunately, this dictates '72 thin pads.
I ended up buying Brembo pads, they're good quality, readily available at motor factors and at least 1/2 the price of EBC green/redstuff.
ATE brake systems are what was originally fitted and their pads are good if you can find them.
It's worth bleeding your system again to ensure its clean and air free. If you do, ATE dot 4 brake fluid is highly recommended by me, and countless others on classic forums around the world. It' a little expensive but proven over years to perform really well and protect systems well even with irregular/seldom use. Well worth the money to preserve your setup.

Many thanks. Sounds like good advice. Not had brakes tested yet. Somewhat bizarrely Paul at garage had his identity stolen and he's been trying to cancel a big loan taken out in his name. He promises that it will be done tomorrow....

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