Running woes. Long post sorry.

Early Bay Forum

Help Support Early Bay Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

delidubz69bay

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
Location
Bootle liverpool
Hi all ,I was totally gutted recently after a planned trip to a local show was ruined when my bus conked out on the motorway.

I currently have a 1776 in my 69 t2 early bay
It is based on a new universal case built by a well known engine company.
It has less than 6 thousand miles on it.

It was built about 8 years ago and came with a 009 dizzy fitted with paint dot(guarantee void)on timing clamp to ensure no one had messed with it.

All other parts where new and it had recon twin 40 dellorto's. From a. Reputable firm.

I have never really been able to get it to run as good as I'd liked in the 12 months of ownership.
It splutters and Coffs until warm.

When warm it often splutters through the carbs.
I heard that the dellortos can do this.

I fear it was never set up correctly by the previous owner. Or any garage he may of took it to.

I took the carbs apart to find that the pump jets had been( persuaded to operate)

This became apparent by the tiny holes on two jets being opened up,on the left hand side carb

No idea who had done this as it was before my ownership.

I rebuilt the carbs in any case with four new pump jets etc.

I ran it local and thought it was ok....better
There are loads of speed bumps where I live and it's difficult to go anywhere without stopping and starting.

It has now developed a major running fault on a steady run

I have checked for ignition and possibly any fuelling issues ,but I can't fathom it out.

This year in preparation for attending some shows etc,I fitted new r9 fuel lines including a new tank outlet.
The original tank filter was spotless and was re used.
I have a further filter close to the tank.

It seems to almost run perfectly on tick over until I go for a steady drive.
It will run out of steam and misfire.

After a while it gave a Big Bang through the exhaust and seems to clear.

I got it home and investigated a few things.

Carbs have since been thoroughly cleaned again and rebuilt recently with new needle valves and pumps jet diaphrams,pump jets.
And more recently it has a new ethanol resistant fuel pump.

All carbs have just been balanced.

Tappets set and rechecked ,compression tested,ignition set.Dwell etc
Still no great results in running

I have an oil pressure light/gauge and also an oil temp switch(mounted in the t3 blanking off plate)

Plus VDO gauges to match.
It has never got hot whilst this problem has arisen

It also has a maxiflo 3 full flow oil pump on it which run to an external oil hp1 filter and oil cooler.

Background work

This year however I have hardly used it.

Before it conked out I serviced the engine.

I fitted a autocraft towbar.
I have also just fitted a brand new vintage speed exhaust.

Never went on a run until going to carry on dubbin and since then I've had nothing but grief.

I've swapped the dizzy for a very good original Bosch 009 ,changed points plugs condenser,cap,rotor,even changed the coil and leads.
Re-timed it.
I thought I'd cracked it as it seemed to rev and run better .
Sadly
To no avail
Was going to another show and the same thing happened.

Not sure if it's fuelling,the exhaust,burnt valve seats or what..?

I was going to put the empi/ mondo exhaust back on to see it it made it run any better.
This would mean removing the tow bar.

But I can not work out why it would conk out or run funny on a stretch of road.

It's seems to me that it may need a electric fuel pump and regulator or filter king or similar

When I feel it is bout to loose power it feels like it's going to blow the exhaust off and if you put your foot further down it will cause an explosion in the exhaust.

Is that ignition timing..?

I've took the carbs back off and it's sat there all feeling sorry for itself.

I have tried most things I can think of before I decide wether to pull the engine out and have a look inside the heads etc

Any further thoughts.
You time will be a welcome pleasure.

Thank you.
 
It does sound like maybe the carbs are letting fuel in once they get warm due to excess fuel pressure (I.e. you need a fuel pressure regulator). Its probably dumping excess fuel into the barrels which is not being burnt and ending up in the exhaust. Eventually this volume of fuel is alighting and causing the bang.

Sent from my Siswoo C55 using Tapatalk
 
Fit a fuel pressure regulator and then get the carbs set up properly first before doing anything else. Even changing your exhaust will need the jetting changing.
Check the timing again, and make sure that the distributor is advancing properly.
 
Hi there
Thank you both very much for your replies.
I agree, that sounds feasible.

Would you say it would be ok to use a fuel regulator with a mech fuel pump ?

Or would this need to be changed to electric?

One thing also I don't like about the carbs is the way one carb has the outlet which runs to the other.

I am contemplating fitting t-piece in between the two.

Also I have noticed when running the inlet manifolds are really cold.

Would this have any affect ?

Thanks again.
Tim
 
You'll need a regulator with a stock fuel pump as these can pump up to 7psi.
Shouldn't make any difference with a tee piece as the carbs are designed to be interconnected.
The manifolds running cold are the sign of fuel/air atomisation.
 
As Si has accurately said - fit a fuel pressure regulator
I have a malpassi with an integral fuel filter and it works perfectly with my standard mechanical fuel pump.
Check my thread for ideas on installing it and fabricating a bracket.
Good luck getting it sorted - should be running great after the reg is installed.
Although to get the best from your engine you should get it on a rolling road.
 
I think most people on here agree that a 009 is not much good in a bus - especially on bigger capacity engines. I had one on my 1600TP which I tried to use when I changed it for a 1776. It popped back through the carbs under load when cold and had a massive flat spot when warm. I swapped it for a vacuum advance dizzy (Accuspark) and it has cured 99% of my problems. I will eventually get it on a rolling road when I have the funds free -but some unscheduled major body restoration has emptied my wallet at the moment.
 
I've twin 40 Dells on 2007cc and never felt it was running right. I changed the mechanical pump for a CB Performance rotary pump. This has a regulator and filter built in and is set at 3.5psi which is the ideal pressure for the Dells. The difference was amazing. Much smoother throughout the Rev range especially at lower revs. Starting is easier as well, a few pumps of the throttle before and it fires instantly. Your original pump maybe worn or the pushrod sticking when warm after a run. Plenty info on both cb pump and mech pump sticking if you try a Google search.

I've got a 009 dizzy, may well change this for a vac advance after reading about them.

Good luck,

Frank.
 
Hi there,firstly thank you to every one who has helped with your great advice .
I really appreciate that.

Here's a little update.

I've had the carbs off for a couple of days and had a bit of spare time this afternoon to look them over.

First I discovered that the right hand carb was sticking open,just as it should shut off.
It transpired that the rear spindle nut was way too tight,pulling the butterflies rearward.

I've backed this off and it now snaps shut,simply off the original Spring.
This may explain why it had really strong springs on each carb when I first bought it.
I took these off not long after purchase as the pedal was way too stiff.

While I was tinkering with it last week,it looks as if I've put one of the idle jets holder (?) back in and torn an o ring
I found it inside the float bowl.

its a difficult job for me to do when the carbs are fitted and I've probably just popped it back down inside it's hole and not Took any notice there after.
Silly me.

Also on the same side what was tight I discovered the lever arm has slightly elongated.
So I have ordered two meatier stainless steel ones.

One other thing I looked at this time round was it airspeed jets/ screws.
I avoided looking at these last time around as I heard to leave them well alone.

I found some where turned in more than others and one was actually a little rusty.

I have carefully cleaned these and fitted new o rings.
I have gently screwed them back in until they only just about touch there final point.

I have heard these can be used during fine tune up.

I took all the mixture screws out,carefully cleaned them and fitted new o rings,ensuring there washers where in the right place.
Also,took the delivery valve,springs and weights out.

I took out the intake valve (?) in the bottom of each carb to check they where ok,the ball seems to work ok

I've blasted everything clean with carb cleaner and air finished it all.
Look almost spotless .

Alls I want to do now it re check the float settings.
Then I will be ready to refit them.

Once I have fitted and set up the filter King I've ordered I'll give it a go around the block.
Once I've had a tune out of it I will update my findings.

Again,thanks for all your help.
 
Frank,thanks for your note regarding the 009

My motor had a cheap Chinese / Brasilia one fitted since it was built and I never liked the look of it.
When ever I wanted to fit points and condenser it showed it's true quality as nothing wanted to fit it correctly
And it wobbled really bad when I took it out.

I had a near mint Bosch original in my spares box which I fitted since I had the recent running problems.no wobbles .
It actually runs a lot better with this one on.

I am more than likely going to go to vac advance with electronic ignition once I have got it running a little better.

I've been looking at deferent ones for months now and there are many different ones to try.

Incidentally only one carb I have has the pipe where you would fit the vac pipe.
Which may prove a pain .

Thanks again,Tim
 
I should have added in my reply that I had exactly the same problem with my carbs in that one was sticking in it's initial 1/4 opening making the other one fight it.
I must say you're braver than me stripping the carbs down so far, sounds like you've found a few things which will hopefully cure the problem.
Would be very interested in the Vac Dizzy developments. I've also looked at this thinking my 009 is strangling the engine. Accuspark seem to have varying good/bad reviews from people who've used them and not sure of any others on the market. Would you be looking to get an original svda with after market electronics?

Frank.
 
delidubz69bay said:
Sorry I had double posted
Can anyone suggest what distributor coil ,ignition would work well?
Thanks again


If you're staying stock distributor, then a stock coil will be fine.
If you're changing to electronic ignition of any kind the coil will need to have a minimum winding resistance of 3 ohms.
 
Hi again
Just a little update for anyone who had looked into or commented my post.

I fitted a Filter King fuel regulator with a glass bowl and went off for a drive.

Once I got to a steady pace,it wanted to run funny again.

Pulled over and the glass bowl on the regulator was empty.
It took an age to fill up,went on a run again and the same thing happens.

Got it home ok and I took the brand new fuel pump off and I found the problem.

The push rod for the fuel pump should have 5mm lift.
That is on its maximum lift,it should stick out above the pump spacer 5 mm.

When I looked at the new rebuildable pump there was at least 5 mm free play.
This was before the pump would even engage.

It was apparently for a alternator charged motor,which I what have fitted.
This has a 100 mm rod.

Simple fix was to fit the original fuel pump.

Fuel bowl fills up super quick now.

I've been everywhere in it and it has not conked out once.
Happy days...

Not all good news yet as it's still running very rich on tick over.
I've played about with the regulator,turned down the pressure but it seems to make it pop and bang through the carbs.

Once I open the pressure a little more it Clears up the popping.

If left to tick over for a short while,it throws out a lot of soot when you Rev it up

It clears when driving normally,no hesitations or backfiring.
I'm still using the original Bosch 009.

I think I need to play about with the idle jets.
Ideally it needs to go on a rolling road.

Once warmed up,it goes like an absolute rocket if you want it too.
Best I've ever driven it.

It will accelerate really well in any gear.

Thanks for all your advice again.
 

Latest posts

Top