Stability & Cruising Speed

[Rippers]

I've owned my bay for a year now and its never felt that great at speed and because of this I trend to stick to 55ish on the motorways

The issue is I feel like I'm constantly moving the steering wheel just driving straight and this seems to get worst once I hit 60 plus and it feels a bit unnervy, I had assumed it was just play but now I'm not so sure as I have now changed the all the steering arms, lowered the suspension, adjusted the play in the steering box, changed the front shocks, had the tracking done, the tyres are decent and the front bearings are brand new.

So now I'm gathering conclusions and I think it is either..

1. The stock tyres are too thin? I say stock I'm running hankook 205 75 14's maybe a more modern tyre with lower profile?
2. Ball joints at fault? they where fine when I checked them
3. Its the aerodynamics of the bus being pushed around by side winds etc?
5. Its because that's how steering boxes feel?

or is it that's just how they are, its a old vehicle and I need to get used to it..

What speed to you guys cruise at on the M-ways and what engine do you have?

I believe my engine is a stock 1600 and its not that it can't do more then 60 I just very really go over it because of the above issues

Lastly want can be done to further improve the feel of the van? Any tips, mods or advise?

 

[Trikky2]

Its impossible to say because its all so subjective.

Rear engined vehicles tend to be less directionally stable simply because of the weight distribution and will also suffer more in side winds and turbulence. You even notice this on a Porsche.

Steering boxes are always going to be more vague than rack and pinion steering.

The only way for you to judge if you have a problem with yours is to have a drive in a few others for comparison.

Sorry this reply is as vague as your steering.

 

[Marriedblonde]

i dont think it is tyre related. When I first drove mine on the motorway I early crapped myself the first time a lorry went past. It was all over the show.

I have since then added 15" wheels with 55 profile rubber on the front. if anything it is better.

but dot forget sterring boxes are a little, err, less direct than rack and pinion setup.

J.

 

[sparkywig]

Balljoints, trackrod ends, steering idler, drag link, steering damper, steering coupler, steering box. Lots of wear adds up to lots of play.
Non-reinforced tyre sidewalks can exacerbate the problem as well.

 

[BARKING MARK]

I think the steering issue has been fairly well answered above, however my bus tracks very well but my mates doesn't, we both have standard height busses and the same make tyres...tracked problem to steering box...needs replacement.
Regarding speeds on motorways etc I tend to cruise at between 55 and 60 mph. My bus has standard 1600 tp engine can go faster but the vehicle is over 40 years old and NOT a sports car. :lol:
Hope this helps.

 

[Rippers]

I think for me its a paranoia issue, it feels weird/different so I assume there is something wrong..

I must pull over at least once on every long journey as I've smelt oil or petrol :lol: terrified it going to go up in flames

 

[BARKING MARK]

Your never bored with paranoia.... :lol:

 

[Lee152]

In short most buses will do this and feel like this and I guess its a combination of design and 40+year old worn parts. Altering steering geometry by lowering, changing tyre sizes and wheels probably doesnt help.
I keep to a steady 55 and rarely want to go faster because:
a) bus starts to wander
b) takes years to stop from any speed!
c) and it scares me trying to overtake anything slower than me ( LHD Westy )
For me and a standard bus this "feels" like a comfortable speed. Dont think theres many forty year old buses that you would drive that you wouldnt have to constantly "correct" the steering. Part of the charm!

 

[sparkywig]

They didn't wander when new, mine only does now because of the worn steering box as I've replaced everything else.
I'm fitting a late bay box in a couple of months to correct this.

 

[Trikky2]

They didn't wander when new, mine only does now because of the worn steering box as I've replaced everything else.
I'm fitting a late bay box in a couple of months to correct this.

Mine doesent wander as long as theres no uneven side winds blowing.

It will react on the motorway when something big passes - it did this when it was new and hasnt changed :lol:

It feels perfectly fine on the motorway at 70/80 with no strong side winds but much above 80 and it does start to wander simply due to having the aerodynamics of a lumpy breeze block, same as you get on a Defender.

The amount of wander is also affected by how much of a load your carrying.

Like I said though - its subjective and depends what your used to.

For instance my old 1938 Citroen Traction ran arrow straight at any speed whilst the 1965 Mustang wandered all over the road like a boat at only 40 mph.

 

[mike202]

it's a big box on wheels so gets blown about at speed, by lorries passing, or if there is a cross wind.

You don't see many other types of 40 year old vans around though.

 

[skin69]

Mine seems fine as a rule but I have noticed it wander on certain stretches of road. I've put it down to the lorry wheelings & seem to think it wanders in & out of these...

 

[cotswoldiver]

Must admit, as part of my project work on the westy Rocket Ron fitted a NOS steering box and the difference compared to my two previous early bays was amazing - but I still get caught out by the odd blast of gusting wind on a motorway.

sparkywig wrote:
They didn't wander when new, mine only does now because of the worn steering box as I've replaced everything else.
I'm fitting a late bay box in a couple of months to correct this.

So I think sparkywig you will also see a big difference

Has any one splashed out on a lite steer solution? http://www.litesteer.com/

I've seen them at the shows, but never spoken to them in detail, but thought this was probably a solution to the heaviness of non powered assistance as opposed to a stability solution.

 

[KevH]

It feels perfectly fine on the motorway at 70/80 with no strong side winds but much above 80 and it does start to wander simply due to having the aerodynamics of a lumpy breeze block, same as you get on a Defender.

Er...that's kilometres per hour rather than mph...yes? :lol:

My breeze block would probably melt at 70 or 80 mph, and the stink from my own rear end would be unbearable .

 

[Trikky2]

It feels perfectly fine on the motorway at 70/80 with no strong side winds but much above 80 and it does start to wander simply due to having the aerodynamics of a lumpy breeze block, same as you get on a Defender.

Er...that's kilometres per hour rather than mph...yes? :lol:

My breeze block would probably melt at 70 or 80 mph, and the stink from my own rear end would be unbearable .

Mph.

On the original 1600 it was 65 to 70 (on the flat) as per stock.

Now with a big engine its capable of a lot more but I prefer to stay between 70 and 80 (which on a 2 liter gearbox is still not a lot of rpm).

 

[Haveacamper]

Balljoints, trackrod ends, steering idler, drag link, steering damper, steering coupler, steering box. Lots of wear adds up to lots of play.
Non-reinforced tyre sidewalks can exacerbate the problem as well.

Just to reiterate this point, a lot of SMALL wear in each component will add up to alot.

I know you've mentioned it, but toe-in/out will also not help wandering/feel of instability at higher speeds.

notice form your original post that you have not mentioned about changing the steering coupler between the steering column and the steering box, may be worth replacing that too.

if you do have a worn box, then adjusting the screw will only help to a certain extent. then it will simply make steering more and more difficult if i remember correctly.

 

[Trikky2]

Yes. Like most boxes of this type, the adjustment controls the insertion depth of the peg into the worm. It should be set as per the manual eg. front wheels off the ground, set the screw as far "in" as it will go without creating any detectable tight spot around the straight ahead position.

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

It will also wear things faster if adjusted, strictly speaking they are meant to be left alone, they are a set from factory item.

Heritage are in the process of trying to get early bay boxes remanufactured (Well the worm and pin) and will be offering boxes on an exchange basis.

 

[Supertramp]

I've come to accept that it's a breadbox on wheels and gets blown about all over the place.
I cruise at 55 on the motorway although last night I was driving back at 2am so did 70 the entire way home. Other than noise/fuel use I didn't notice any more stability issues than if I was driving at 50/55.

 

[BARKING MARK]

It will also wear things faster if adjusted, strictly speaking they are meant to be left alone, they are a set from factory item.

Heritage are in the process of trying to get early bay boxes remanufactured (Well the worm and pin) and will be offering boxes on an exchange basis.

YES PLEASE Alex.....Please keep us all updated on this, its about time someone did a genuine proper recon steering box.
Well done vwh for starting the ball rolling.