009 question....

[irish gerry]

hey guys,

my van has a 009 dizzy on it with a black cap on it, i ordered a new cap and it's a red cap.

is that right or have i been given the wrong cap or does the colour matter, i checked with my parts dude and he says thats what comes up for a 009

 

[Tofufi]

The colour shouldn't matter. Some might be poorer quality though. Bosch and Beru ones are meant to be the best afaik.

A 009 is no use whatsoever with stock carburettors. In fact, even with twin weber ICTs etc, a vacuum distributor would be better.

 

[RICH-I-AM]

Definately ^^^WHS^^^

 

[noddy]

had an 009 on mine for about 2 days, what a Bi**h it was to drive, had to rev up before pulling away to stop it dying, when strait back to stock vac advance much smoother advance.

 

[irish gerry]

is it a easy thing to do to re fit a stock dizzy for a learner like me???

 

[irish gerry]

just having a quick look in heritage site, is this the one i would be after??

Distributor, Vacuum advance, Bosch
[043-905-205]

about £99 for a new one?

 

[noddy]

First before you go and change you dizzy, what carb are you running, if you are using an aftermarket one weber etc, the carb can produce a vacuum that is to big for the dizzy causing to go strait to full advance at tick over.

As for fitting, yes its pretty strait forward, but you will need a strobe to set the timing accurately.

1. wind the engine to number one cylinder firing position (there will be a very small notch on the edge or the distributor body casting on top edge this in no 1)
2. put into first gear (stop the distributor drive dog in the engine from getting moved by accident)
3. undo distributor clamp from engine case
4. pull dizzy out with its clamp (makes fitting the new one much easier)
5. put dizzy clamp on new distributor
6. put new seal on dizzy shaft
7 turn rotor arm to number one firing position (as number 1 on list)
8. slide into case (try and side in with drive dog in roughly the right position) push down till no gaps between dizzy, clamp and case,bolt down clamp to case.
9. take out of gear
10. start engine, and time new dizzy (timing position varies depending on distributor and carb)

Please check what carb you have first.

Ian

 

[Joval]

just having a quick look in heritage site, is this the one i would be after??

Distributor, Vacuum advance, Bosch
[043-905-205]

about £99 for a new one?

That's the genuine Bosch/VW Mexico SVDA :wink:

 

[Clarkson46]

You will also need some vac hose to connect it to the carb.

 

[matt-me]

Can anyone please help me and clarify the debate of standard vac advanced dizzy Vs bosch 009. Have been a member for a little time now and this seems to be one issue i can't get my head around given the seemingly differing opinions. John Muir seems to strongly favour the 009 in his 'how to keep your vw alive' book.

The problem I have I want to know how best to set up my first bus, only bought about 10 months ago. It has had a re-con engine, so i don't know what timing settings to go for, it has a 009 dizzy so i don't know any different and i have just had twin ICT's fitted. I need to rev it up when cold to pick up but then it gets better. Again, as i have nothing to compare it to i would say it runs ok, when going, although it does feel as though it is a little 'restricted' if that makes sense. When I was playing with the mixture settings of the carbs it ran like a train although it would appear too rich judging by sooty deposits on plugs. Can't seem to get it all right.

Am considering taking it to a specialist/rolling road to get it set up correctly, then I should know what my best base settings are, shouldn't I?

I am sure this has been asked before but i am also sure there will be others out there who would appreciate the 'forums' opinion. Hope i am not opening up a can of works.....

Should i stay or should i go....

 

[Clarkson46]

Firstly, John Muir takes an awful lot of assumptions and should at best be taken as a guide and not as gospel. The can of worms is now open, so watch this space. The 009 was never used or specified by VW in any vehicle. If you look on this website http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ovhignbo.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; scroll down until you find 0231 178 009 it will tell you that is is for VW High Performance Applications. In practice it is only viable for fixed rev applications like a generator or similar. For road use it is a disaster. It causes a flat spot on initial acceleration, excess fuel consumption. Getting an engine to run properly is a nightmare and if you search on here and other forums you will find many people who have ditched their 009 in favour of a stock SVDA dissy as specified by VW.

I could go on, but really you will be far better off with a stock dissy. Set up is easy and the results are so much better.

 

[MMMC]

So to jump in...I have dual weber 34 ICTs and a 009. If I want to go to the vac dizzy where does the end of the vacuum hose go? Do I need to drill into the inlet manifolds?

anything that saves petrol money is a bonus....

 

[Clarkson46]

No you don't drill the manifolds. Normally, it is only one carb that needs to be drilled, usually the left one. The drilling has to be above the butterfly so that the vac signal is only applied when the throttle is opened, otherwise you will have a permanently advanced ignition. There is a thread on another well known forum which explains how and following that advice I drilled a Kadron (Solex) for someone and it is straight forward.

 

[Guest]

No you don't drill the manifolds. Normally, it is only one carb that needs to be drilled, usually the left one. The drilling has to be above the butterfly so that the vac signal is only applied when the throttle is opened, otherwise you will have a permanently advanced ignition. There is a thread on another well known forum which explains how and following that advice I drilled a Kadron (Solex) for someone and it is straight forward.

im very interested in this...

so if the vacuum was taken through the top of the filter that would be sufficient to produce the right signal?

i want a 123 with vac advance really not keen on the 009, but not sure how it would work on a set of 36 IDFs.

have you got the link? i assumes its on VZI?

 

[Clarkson46]

This is the link I followed

http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=426794" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[matt-me]

Thanks Mr Clarkson46. I appreciate your help and advice. I must say I have seen a number of opinions in the forums against the 009. As it is what i have i don't know any different but do feel it could feel alot smoother. I will wait to see what other responses may follow.

Tofufi, if you're following this i see on the VZI thread you went down this route, are you happy with the outcome? Also with ICT's do you know if i am likely to find the same markings within the carb than that shown with the Kadrons; are all these carbs similar in the way they are made up, just different names and probably quality?

Going back to one of my points also, how do you establish what timing you should be using if you don't know what engine you have. The code on mine is firstly an A but the second letter is difficult to establish; it could be a D, but am not certain. I feel if i can establish the base settings and get it running sweet once then i have a chance to keep it this way.

Am only returning back to old vehicles after a long lay off, so am trying to re-learn. Timing was never my strong point anyway.

 

[ronmidg]

climbed the same learner curve here http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30801

Still running without a vacuum line and still wondering what to do, saw a post I cannot now find so cannot give credit which made the point that the vac signal seen by the distributer is a combined effect from drawdown when a inlet valve opens and decay when closed, so its impossible to get the same effect from two cylinders per carb as a system running 4 cylinders per carb. So is conclusion to tee both carbs in to the vac line? but how to deal with the decay which is presumeably faster with two bigger carbs? a one way valve? with a leaky but adjustable return? I dont know, and I've been hoping to catch a thread which does ever since.

As for initial advance, remember these engines were designed to run post war/ third world petrol, they are still low compression, I think USA is still 92 octane? so I would treat the book as a starting point, listen to your engine and give it all the advance it will take.

 

[Clarkson46]

The timing on an 009 is set at 30 degrees advance at 3000 rpm. To begin with set it at 7.5 degrees static and see what happens. 7.5 degrees will start it. If there is a flat spot the try some additional advance, I've only ever attempted to set one up for a friend, gave up, fitted stock SVDA set the timing static, checked it running, been going well ever since. The issue of using both carbs for the vac signal is not necessary in practice. We use Dellorto FRD 34's with the left carb only supplying the vac signal, Kadrons are the same.

 

[Joval]

climbed the same learner curve here http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30801

Still running without a vacuum line and still wondering what to do, saw a post I cannot now find so cannot give credit which made the point that the vac signal seen by the distributer is a combined effect from drawdown when a inlet valve opens and decay when closed, so its impossible to get the same effect from two cylinders per carb as a system running 4 cylinders per carb. So is conclusion to tee both carbs in to the vac line? but how to deal with the decay which is presumeably faster with two bigger carbs? a one way valve? with a leaky but adjustable return? I dont know, and I've been hoping to catch a thread which does ever since.

Anti pulse valve? Eurocarb have them

EDIT:never mind, just read the link...

 

[Tofufi]

Can anyone please help me and clarify the debate of standard vac advanced dizzy Vs bosch 009. Have been a member for a little time now and this seems to be one issue i can't get my head around given the seemingly differing opinions. John Muir seems to strongly favour the 009 in his 'how to keep your vw alive' book.

The problem I have I want to know how best to set up my first bus, only bought about 10 months ago. It has had a re-con engine, so i don't know what timing settings to go for, it has a 009 dizzy so i don't know any different and i have just had twin ICT's fitted. I need to rev it up when cold to pick up but then it gets better. Again, as i have nothing to compare it to i would say it runs ok, when going, although it does feel as though it is a little 'restricted' if that makes sense. When I was playing with the mixture settings of the carbs it ran like a train although it would appear too rich judging by sooty deposits on plugs. Can't seem to get it all right.

Am considering taking it to a specialist/rolling road to get it set up correctly, then I should know what my best base settings are, shouldn't I?

I am sure this has been asked before but i am also sure there will be others out there who would appreciate the 'forums' opinion. Hope i am not opening up a can of works.....

Should i stay or should i go....

John Muir also advocated removing the electric choke on single carbs - which isn't something I'd do - it is a great book, but some of the technical advice should be taken with a pinch of salt, in my opinion. VW knew what they were doing when they spent all that money on development work If only they had ever fitted twin carbs as standard to type 1 engines in Europe (VW SA did on a few bugs...)

With the slow running at starting, it is probably because the carbs have no chokes. It will just take a few minutes for them to warm up properly, prior to that they will be running a bit too lean.

The SVDA distributor is better because it advances or ******* the timing based both on the engine speed (the centrifugal bit), and the engine load (the vac bit). This means that when the engine is lightly loaded, at partial throttle it can advance the timing a lot more (without risking overheating), giving better fuel economy. The 009 does not do this. The vac also helps make the advance change more quickly when you gently apply the throttle - no flat spot