Budget 1745cc engine build?

[Compleat Idiot]

I'm planning (long term) on putting a more powerful lump in my 71 bay - looking for a bit more torque, and 65 - 70 motorway cruising.

Am also extremely impoverished due to the VW disease..(why buy one bus when you can have two - one for the workshop and one for the road :mrgreen: )

Has anyone any experience of building a budget 1745cc? - reckon it's the cheapest way to get a bit of power - no machining needed, except maybe a bit of dremelling...
I'd be looking at buying a stroker crank and 8 dowel flywheel, and not a lot else if possible...

Would I get a reasonable boost without (initially) switching to twin carbs / less restrictive exhaust?


Would the money be better spent on the above two on a stock 1600?

Ok, I'll stop with the questions :lol: - any ideas welcome

 

[Loxy]

Built myself a 1700 a while back - with a 74mm crank - forged pistons etc
got most of the parts cheap off the VZi import guys so didnt cost a lot.
still had to clearance the case with 74mm & some new rods - forget what they were at the minute.
Seems to run pretty well, however unless you get the parts cheap - I reckon its probably cheaper/easier to go 1776 - as the case will need checking at least & full flow oil tapping etc so may as well get the case machined & heads sorted.

 

[Compleat Idiot]

Cheers Loxy...
Another reason I'm not keen on machining is I'm in Ireland - I don't know of any specialist VW engine guys - not sure if the normal machine shops would be familiar with the VW engine...

I was hoping to tap and full flow the case myself...
I have what seems to be a good case - no end float, will see more when I crack it open - as I said, I'm really looking to do this on as low a budget as possible...

Anyone any opinions on uprated carbs + exhaust vs. longer stroke crank - where's the best place to spend a few quid?

 

[Tijssie]

Hi there, 'complete idiot' haha, actually I don't see the need for a machine shop to be familiar with VW engines, as there is no special approach in my opinion for let's say quite standard machining jobs, like for example increasing the bore. It's only a matter of aligning the parts and making sure they have it centered. Just like they do on a Vauxhall or Honda engine.
On the other hand I would indeed not get myself into trouble on building a non-proven setup, when you can go for a well-proven setup, which will require you to increase the bore (I'd say it'll cost you about 100 euro's) and open up the heads (another 100 I think, I have the luxury of a friend with a machine shop at home :lol: ) or buying new heads (which gives you the opportunity to go for other valve sizes, ported inlet/outlet ducts etc.)
Of course you'll get involved with some other minor engineering problems, but you'll face them anyway, also with building a 1745cc, and they actually take rather time than money.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you prefer!

Cheers, mattijs

 

[dubdubz]

1745 seems cheap..but it is a lot of work to get right and mine doesn't yet run!

deck height is tricky to achieve and you need to use forged mahle psitons, they have a shorter skirt out of the box. There is a loy of clearancing to do which is easy with dremel but the swarf is a b*itch to clean off.

I cannot recommend John Maher enough he is on one of the scottich isles and it is worth it to get him to balance the bottom crank,flywheel and clutch. I wish in hindsight I had the money to have gone 1945? - 76x 90.5. Having said that all the top end on mine is stock [apart from home port clean up and reseating valves].

fredster built and ran his for a while before selling he ran a higher CR than I intend to...it's silly things like you can get copper head gaskets for 90.5 and up [to help set deck height/CR] but not for 85.5, so you need to be creative [nothing fancy just creative!]

Fredster may be able to help some more....engines aren't really cheap things, you may save on machining but the b+ps need to be the forged ones so it's only a marginal increase to get machined and go for 90.5's. I think he ran std rods too?

It also depends on the intended driving and long term use, mine is for cruising to campsites and shows....so the percieved torque was what I was after.

if I can help any more let me know [ both mine and Fredsters run twin dells, mine are 36's ]

 

[justin pane]

I am very pleased with my 1745, standard heads, polished a bit, standard conrods, releived on the bigend, standard pistons with the skirts clearanced, spacers under barrels, I did manage to get copper head spacers,(1mm) c/r 8.5/1, 4 into 1 exhaust. transit oil filter, pulls like a train, 70mph at 3100rpm all day (I fitted 2L R/P) I can recomend it.

 

[dubdubz]

Justin where did you get 1mm copper headgaskets - I didn't try hard enough obviously! what year transit oil filter?

did you build yours? I'd like to ask more q's via pm.....

 

[justin pane]

Justin where did you get 1mm copper headgaskets - I didn't try hard enough obviously! what year transit oil filter?

did you build yours? I'd like to ask more q's via pm.....

I did everything except balancing the conrods, its a 95 2.5 diesel (I just chose a big one) the copper gaskets were in some heads I picked up Ill have a look see if I got any more, the two hardest jobs are bending the exhaust manifold to fit the heads (they are wider apart due to the spacers) and the real problem was finding a 2LT R/P for the G/box, Any help I can give I will pm or other wise, J.

 

[fredster]

As Dubdubz says I had a 1745 until recently when I sold it due to building a 2080 engine. As strange as it sounds I wish I'd stuck with the 1745. My 2080 goes like the bleeding clappers but really no need for that sort of performance in a 40 year old bus with drum brakes and no servo and I loved that 1745. If you can't find someone near you to cut your case for 90.5's I would say have a go, makes for a great bus engine but YOU MUST GET IDF'S OR DELL'S. apols on shouting but to do all that work on engine only to insult it with a shoddy solex would be criminal.

Before you go ahead with it read the thread below, especially John Maher's comments. In a nutshell, he's saying that increased stroke (eg 1745) offers no more torque than displacement increase via bigger B & P's (eg 1776). Worth a read.

http://www.volkszone.co.uk/VZi/showthread.php?t=537396&highlight=oversquare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Compleat Idiot]

Thanks for the replies guys, I guess I have some more reading to do...
Seems there's pros and cons either way (1745 or 1776)
It's next winter's plan, so I'll keep studying...

 

[easy]

I have just had a 1776 built for my notch and all i can say is it is one hell of a good engine! the torque curve is smoother than claudia schiffers bottom! i have done around a 1000 miles now and its just been tuned, not fully tweeked within an inch of its life but well tuned all the same. Its put out 93BHP at around 104mph (not bad for a 64 notch )

All the bits were supplied by JMR and built by Jason @ Interpro 8)

Check out how quick it gets to 104mph

 

[fredster]

Thats a bit saucy!

 

[easy]

Thats a bit saucy!

:mrgreen: goes like a dream. 8)

Maybe an new engine for the van is on the cards................

 

[Guest]

sounds really nice easy, should give the chavs a run for the money at the lights too

 

[easy]

sounds really nice easy, should give the chavs a run for the money at the lights too

You know me johnny i dont do that sort of thing

Mind you i did leave a saxo standing at the lights this morning, poor kid with an eagle on his head (those shocking new spikey/mohawk/badly tinted haircuts) looked a bit put out! :lol: :lol:

 

[currylager]

How many beer tokens do i need to save to get one of those babies and what carbs are you running with it?, if you dont mind me asking

 

[easy]

How many beer tokens do i need to save to get one of those babies and what carbs are you running with it?, if you dont mind me asking

Hmmm good question. Its about £3000 in parts, but i already had the heads and the case. Total build inc bits is around £4000 but that includes everything, tinware powder coating the lot. I did have a fair amount of port and polish work aswell and it included as many NOS parts as i could get my hands, like breather and dynamo.

The carbs are 40idfs on short manifolds to get them under the boot lid mpg is not to bad as £25 lasts me after a good tune up about 150 miles. 8)

On the build up

Sneeky sneeky

High torque starter added since this pic ^^^

 

[currylager]

Thanks for the info, i reckon i'll have the fittest liver in Shropshire if i want one of those. Would be nice to fit something a bit more pokier to my bus at some point. Doing 25mph up those long welsh hills gets a bit embarrasing after a while

 

[easy]

Thanks for the info, i reckon i'll have the fittest liver in Shropshire if i want one of those. Would be nice to fit something a bit more pokier to my bus at some point. Doing 25mph up those long welsh hills gets a bit embarrasing after a while

Yea but in a bus you look cool going slow, so all is good :mrgreen: