oil breather

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sharky71

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just been looking through some gallery images and some vans have twin carbs with what seems to be an oil breather attached to both air filters and then to the oil filler pipe if you know what i mean,why is this? :?
i have twin ict's and do not have this setup just a vacum pipe linking the carbs together,do ict's need oil breather pipe etc ?
regards.

sharky.
 
its connected to the air filter so that clean air is drawn in to crankcase.i see yours isant conected to anything.no fumes coming out of yours 8) on mine i have just put a long tube up to the top of engine bay.
 
67panel said:
on mine i have just put a long tube up to the top of engine bay.

The problem is that oil fumes will gradually coat the engine and dust will stick to it everywhere including inside the tinware and fan.

This will then lead to component failures due to oil soaking and will reduce the effectiveness of the cooling system.

Assuming you have still got a heating system, fumes will be drawn into the heater and cause oil misting on the windscreen and unpleasant smells in the cab.

Thes vehicles were built to sell in a competitive market and if the breather system could have been dispensed with because it served no purpose VW would have done so, if only just to save the cash :lol:
 
only if your engine is fobard :shock: shoul only draw in fresh air,fumes go out of lower pipe,different if you have late breather for "closed"system.
 
so to summarise then, do i need to put a breather some where on my twin airfilters?if so how and where do you reccommend??
regards.

sharky :?
 
only need to fit it on one really as it should be sucking in fresh air ,needs fitting on air cleaner.
 
any thoughts on how to(what kinda barb fitting on filter plates etc),what about other end on oil filler? :shock:
 
depends on your air filter,sorry didnt take much notice,you can get right angle ones,brass and plastic.just pushes on other end.
 
67panel said:
only if your engine is fobard :shock: shoul only draw in fresh air,fumes go out of lower pipe,different if you have late breather for "closed"system.

The downpipe on a stock early style breather is a condensation drain. Oil vapour is warm so it rises the laws of physics prevent it from going down.
 
LAST COMMENT ,not being arsey or anythink but theres a baffle plate for oil vapor to condence on ,thats my theory any way :msn4: :)
 
sparkywig said:
67panel said:
LAST COMMENT ,not being arsey or anythink but theres a baffle plate for oil vapor to condence on ,thats my theory any way :msn4: :)


Isn't the baffle plate to stop the oil being thrown back up the filler neck, which is why it's directional? :?:

i mean in the filler ,have a look at how one is made.if your engine(stock) is putting oil out of either of the breather pipes then something is wrong.defo my last comment cos dont want to upset anyone cos loooooooove this forum 8)
 
67panel said:
i mean in the filler ,have a look at how one is made.if your engine(stock) is putting oil out of either of the breather pipes then something is wrong.defo my last comment cos dont want to upset anyone cos loooooooove this forum 8)

Oil vapor is an unfortunate and undeniable fact in internal combustion engines.

In theory a perfect engine would leak no combustion gases into the crankcase, which would be great because the engine oil would not go black and would not be polluted by combustion by-products or diluted by fuel. Modern engines are better than those of forty years ago but even the best ones still turn the oil black after a while. I dont know if it will ever be possible to mass produce engines with a perfect seal but its not been done yet.

The nature of an engine requires parts that rotate and reciprocate rather quickly, whilst simultaneously requiring lubrication. Its not just the crankshaft rotating in the oil. On dry sump engines the lubricating oil spillage from the bearing surfaces still gets thrown around the case at high speed causing atomisation.

Without a breather system, the combustion seepage will cause positive pressure in the crankcase which in turn would force oil out of any weak points such as oil seals etc.

Breather design tries to trap as much of the oil vapor as possible, by using filters and/or baffles, to both keep the engine running clean and to reduce oil consumption but, like piston rings, they cannot be perfect and catch all the vapors. Its a human trait to look for perfection but in the real world perfection is a theoretical dream, its not real. Hence the fact that engines, including modern ones, have a breather connection to the inlet, so the remaining vapors are burnt in the engines combustion process.

Oil vapors are a significant pollutant and it has been a legal requirement, already for many years, that engines do not have crankcase breathers open to the atmosphere.

Additionally, on the VW aircooled engine the breather system is specifically designed to create a very small amount of negative pressure in the crankcase. This is because its an old engine design that has no oil seal on the crankcase where the crankshaft emerges by the fan pulley. Without the small amount of suction from the breather, oil seepage and suspended oil vapor will emerge from this area and spread over the engine over time.

If oil vapors are allowed to build up in the engine compartment it causes problems. This is why, when you examine old cars from say the 1950's or earlier, with breathers to atmosphere, the breather pipes went down to the bottom of the engine, to disperse the fumes under the vehicle rather than over the engine.

If oil vapors are allowed in the engine compartment, over time, normally the first component to suffer is the fan belt, which starts to slip and wear rapidly plus the rubber compounds of the belt deteriorate making it soft and stretchy. On water cooled cars the next thing to suffer is the rubber coolant hoses. The next components to suffer are the electrics, both in terms of damaging insulation, causing tracking on th HT system due to dirt buildup and fouling contact surfaces, like the exposed commutator and carbon brushes in the dynamo for instance.

In the case of rear mounted engines the vapors will get drawn in by the cooling fan. The oil itself wont do much harm in the cooling system initially but over time dust will stick to the oil and a gradual build up will start to affect the efficiency of both the cooling fins and the flow of the air on the fan blades themselves but, most importantly on VW aircooled engines, this buildup will clog the narrow air channels in the oil cooler before anything else.

Due to the way the VW aircooled heating system works one can always tell if the breather is not working correctly since opening the heater flaps will always give a slightly oily smell.

Those unfamiliar with how these vehicles performed originally (and should still today) might not notice or assume its normal.

I would like to emphasize it was not acceptable to arrive at ones destination smelling slightly of engines back in the 1970's any more than it is today. We used our cars to go to work, we wore suits and we worked in offices :lol:

Anybody in doubt about these facts should take their vehicle for a brisk drive to get the engine hot and then, with it running, try breathing in through the breather hose.
:lol: (no - I am joking - dont do it - it would be bad for your health) :lol:
 
most eliquntly put :) of course then we tune them ,make them bigger ect beyond design limits,thats when you need to up grade the breather system,stock with twin carbs can cope with stock breather 8)
 
Sorry to hijack your thread sharky but can someone please tell me what size hose I should get to replace my stock oil breather hose which has a very small split in it where it connects to the air filter? I've looked at heritage's website and have ended up getting very confused, they only seem to have later ones for post 73 models. My current hose isn't braided but there are so many different sizes in terms of wall thickness and internal diameter! :shock: Can someone please give me a simple answer ? I have a 1969 twinport with a totally stock set up
 
67panel said:
most eliquntly put :) of course then we tune them ,make them bigger ect beyond design limits,thats when you need to up grade the breather system,stock with twin carbs can cope with stock breather 8)

Agreed the stock breather is good - better than the aftermarket shiny stuff they sell.

The stock breather is in fact perfectly adequate for upgraded engines too. Theres plenty of street engines of 2 and 2.2 liters etc running stock breathers with no problems.

From experience, extra breathing is only necessary with race engines - screamers etc.
 
wookie said:
Sorry to hijack your thread sharky but can someone please tell me what size hose I should get to replace my stock oil breather hose which has a very small split in it where it connects to the air filter? I've looked at heritage's website and have ended up getting very confused, they only seem to have later ones for post 73 models. My current hose isn't braided but there are so many different sizes in terms of wall thickness and internal diameter! :shock: Can someone please give me a simple answer ? I have a 1969 twinport with a totally stock set up

I thought 69's were originally single port stock.

These vehicles are old and as a result have often had many parts changed/transplanted from other vehicles. Hence IMO the best way to check what hose you need will be to measure the diameter of the stub your current hose is connected to. Then you can be confident you have ordered the right one.
 
just to confirm then,i have 1600tp running twin ict's.there is no pipe setup from either airfilter to the pipe next to the oil filler neck.
do i need to change this or is it ok as it is?(pipe by the oil filler neck is one complete item,almost like an overflow standard fitting does that make sense?)
regards.

sharky. :?
 
sharky71 said:
just to confirm then,i have 1600tp running twin ict's.there is no pipe setup from either airfilter to the pipe next to the oil filler neck.
do i need to change this or is it ok as it is?(pipe by the oil filler neck is one complete item,almost like an overflow standard fitting does that make sense?)
regards.

sharky. :?

I assume you mean theres a pipe connected to the outlet by the filler that just goes straight down?

If so - does it exit the engine compartment?

If it does then, although not right or legal, it will probably be ok - though you would be better connecting it to the top of the right hand air filter, since without the small amount of suction you might get some misting and seepage from behind the engine pulley.

If it exits inside the engine compartment then you should definitely connect it to the air filter asap.

You will probably have to drill the top of the filter and buy a right angled connector of suitable diameter to connect the hose to.
 
yeah i have a beetle lump in mine,well i think it is cos there is that polished adaptor plate which bolts up with the moustache bar at the back.
anyhow next to the oil filler neck there is a small pipe (metal,attached to filler about 15mm od roughly)which runs down and out underneath below engine(found out when changing oil the first time and ended up with about 200ml of oil on bottom tinware and on the garage floor).
there is no pipe fitted at all to any of the filters on me twin ict's.
do i need to?is it beneficial to do so?ifso where can get some of these fittings?the usual suspects?
regards.

sharky :shock:
 

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