3D printing...

[Ben72Bay]

I'd like to explore 3D printing a bit more and maybe make the odd thing for the bus - small projects to practice with!
is anyone 3D printing bits for their bus and if so, what printers are you using?

I'm Mac based so needs to be compatible; the printer doesn't need to be big, something small and desktop is fine for me to have a play with!

Recommendations for affordable 'starter printers' please and also any suggestions / examples of projects most welcome

Thanks
Ben

 

[ozziedog]

I'd like to explore 3D printing a bit more and maybe make the odd thing for the bus - small projects to practice with!
is anyone 3D printing bits for their bus and if so, what printers are you using?

I'm Mac based so needs to be compatible; the printer doesn't need to be big, something small and desktop is fine for me to have a play with!

Recommendations for affordable 'starter printers' please and also any suggestions / examples of projects most welcome

Thanks
Ben

Sounds like a great idea bud. Whatever you make , I’ll have two.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,, I just got a sonic cleaner thing

 

[Ben72Bay]

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,, I just got a sonic cleaner thing

My wife has one of those for cleaning jewellery! I used it to clean the carb for my 1971 scooter

 

[ozziedog]

I got a ten litre one I think but I gotta say I’m not that impressed with it. I got it primarily to rinse my carbs. So after little progress with results in cleaning I resorted to U Tube. The main thing that i gleaned <<<< rhymes with cleaned Was that water wasn’t that good but to put your ‘item’ in a suitable cleaning solution in a plastic container, be it water and fairy liquid or diesel or paraffin then float that in the water but I can’t get anything to shift oily messes or rust etc etc. Am I making a hash of it again?

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,, seemed so easy

 

[Ben72Bay]

I got a ten litre one I think but I gotta say I’m not that impressed with it. I got it primarily to rinse my carbs. So after little progress with results in cleaning I resorted to U Tube. The main thing that i gleaned <<<< rhymes with cleaned Was that water wasn’t that good but to put your ‘item’ in a suitable cleaning solution in a plastic container, be it water and fairy liquid or diesel or paraffin then float that in the water but I can’t get anything to shift oily messes or rust etc etc. Am I making a hash of it again?

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,, seemed so easy

Think I just put a little liquid soap in there , then on the next go fresh warm water.

I gave the parts a scrub with Muck Off first to shift the big grimly bits.

 

[fallingoffalot]

I've got a 3D printer, about 7 years ago, it's a Prusa and comes in a kit, so me and my lad had fun building it first. It works fine, but after the initial excitement we haven't actually used it that much. I did print a small instrument holder for my temp gauge which I put under the dash. Have a look at my build thread. I'm sure the world has moved on now and there's probably a massive choice out there

 

[hotrodthug]

Ooh 3d printing, something I know a lot about and the thing I do know is that it's fun!

So you've got two types to explore, FDM (adding layers of filament slowly to build up your print) and Resin (setting resin layer by layer until you have a complete print).

FDM is perfect for printing things for vehicles as you have a world of materials to choose from PLA plastic to ABS, Carbon Fibre, Nylon, Flexible rubbers to things like stone and wood!
The downside is that much like an air cooled engine, the printer needs constant tweaking and the high end filaments need special parts to deal with the high heat needed to work with them.

Resin is perfect for detail as you don't get the later lines associated with FDM but you're limited to the size of the print, quite small, and the resin isn't as strong as FDM in say nylon. You can get ABS like resin (not actually ABS but similar properties) but you don't have nearly the same choice.

I have one of each. I love them both for different things but I especially love my FDM as although it's slow, I have tuned it to get high detail and am now printing in some amazingly odd materials like stone, yes actual stone, it's weird and wonderful!

I'll add to this post when I get home from walking the dogs, post pictures and recommend printers and kit etc. Its a stupidly fun addictive hobby especially when you get into 3d modelling.

Jamie x

 

[hotrodthug]

Ok 3d printing part 2

FDM printers.

So you've got three common choices here
1. Creality - perfect entry point and the choice of the DIYer. Low cost and more accessories than you can shake a stick at. Will need an upgrade to earlier models to print exotic filaments. Newer K models are really pushing the envelope for speed and quality. The Ender 3 is the most popular for mods.
2. Prusa, as mentioned above. The perfect choice for entry if you have a few more pennies to spend. They just work, they are well supported and the build quality is exceptional. The inventor has to be one of the leading minds in innovation where FDM printing is concerned. This is your choice if you want to avoid the fiddling that comes with Creality.
3. Bambu labs, got deeper pockets and want all of the things with the quality and speed and up to 4 filaments at a time. This is your pro home printing choice.

Other brands are out there but I'd say these are the ones you're going to come across the most.

Now FDM, in most cases you will need to fine tune your settings to get the best out of them. Your bed will want leveling often even with auto levelling and things like belts and the feed will want maintenance. You'll want to keep your filament dry and your print bed clean and expect failures a lot initially until you've dialled in the best settings for your prints. You'll also need to finish your prints to get them super smooth, think car bodywork here. Put the effort in and it'll pay off. You'll then be able to cast from them if you want.

On the plus side, yee gods the choice of stuff you can print with. Want to print a nylon bushing for your suspension, no problem. How about a carbon fibre insert for your dash, you got it. A flexible exhaust hanger, cool. A wooden gear knob that you can sand and varnish, absolutely. A heavy, tarnished with time bronze dohdad for that thing, you bet you can!

FDM is amazing and fun. If you can build it and find it, you can print it. Next up Resin.

 

[hotrodthug]

Part three...

Resin printers.

So resin basically equates to messier, smaller more detailed prints. These are likely to be too small for most things car related unless you're looking at decorative things such as gear knobs, badges etc.

Resin basically involves exposing a layer of resin to UV light to cure it, lifting the bed partially and then repeating until things are complete. This will more often than not result in near imperceivable later lines and stupidly high detail all from a print bed about 8x12cm.

The problem with resin is that it is both toxic and smelly and it needs care. You need to not expose it to UV light while you're not using, not get it on your skin or anything you don't want to ruin (clothes, work surfaces) and not breathe it in while you're using it. Add to that the requirements to clean it once it's printed and then cure it and it would appear to a bystander not worth the effort. In actuality though it's not that bad.

Elegoo and Anycubic make good printers that won't break the bank and provide good quality. On top of that you'll likely want a wash and cure station to save the faff of hand cleaning and UV curing. Then throw some gloves, filters and tools and you're good to go!

Resin comes in all sorts of variety but not nearly as much as filament. Colours are abundant from clear to any colour of the rainbow and you can even mix your own with tints. You can get flexible resins, super strong resins and day to day resins but at the end of the day it's never going to be as strong as filament, the detail though, as I say is second to none.

 

[hotrodthug]

So finally where cost is concerned, well how much do you have to spend?

I got started with my Creality Ender 3 for about £175 and that was fine until I wanted more out of it.
A Prusa will set you back £400 upwards of I recall but as I have mentioned, they just work.
A Bambu will set you back £1600+ but goddamn you won't want for anything after that.

As for resin look at spending about £250 for an Anycubic or Elegoo 4k, double that for 8k or a print bed size increase. Then about £150 for a wash and cure station and about £30 for gloves and filters and IPA for washing the prints, no not the beer! You can get water washable resin but it's not as strong.

Materials wise, filament runs from an average of £20 a roll for basic PLA up to £100s for exotics such as brass or the super luxury woods. A roll will last you ages and if you want to treat it like it wants to be a roll dryer will set you back about £60, or you can use an oven.
Resin runs to about £35 for a bottle of basic grey resin. Look to spend double that for ABS like resin and £100+ for specialist resins such as dental or flexible. This will also last you ages as long as you keep it wasm and in a dark place. Resin does not like to be used when it's cold.

Beyond that throw as much money at it as your wallet wants or allows. I've spent a few hundreds on my Creality improving things like bed leveling, friction free rails, silent motors etc and my cheap starter model will keep up with the big boys.

The one thing I'd say to not give any thought to yet is metal printing. Unless you have tens of thousands to spend, it's still not at hobby level.

The only other thing I can think of is the software. Most of it is device agnostic as the printers don't care because all they want to see is the .STL file on a usb stick. A good slicer like Lychee is simple to learn and if you're into modelling there's a lot of good free stuff out there including the tricky to use but amazing Blender.

So with all that go and have fun. There's not a lot out there being done for cars especially the VW side of things. I'd say maybe start with printing some existing models and seeing what you can improve on. Alternatively start modelling some things and get them printed for you and see what you think.

My only warning, it's addictive, especially the Creality constant tuning side of the hobby. Most of my learning was making my printer better. Think of it as an air cooled engine, there always something to polish, make lighter, faster, prettier.

Have fun and feel free to DM me if you want help or even something printing while you're learning.

Jamie

 

[Coda]

I second the Creality and Prusa mentions, both printers I have experience with.

I would choose based on what ratio of money/free time you have...

If you get the Creality, the first things you will probably print are upgrades for the printer then as you play and experiment you will be buying new nozzles, new extruders, new boards, compiling your own firmware, retrofitting a touch screen, buying new print surfaces, fitting a raspberry pi with a camera or three, etc etc (ask me how I know). It's fun but that costs time and money.

If you don't want to do all that get a Prusa. You can buy it in a kit as mentioned or you can buy it ready-built for a bit more money, but they are solid and dependable printers.

There are a lot more printers on the market that are more expensive than the Prusa, and for not a huge amount more benefit, unless you want dual nozzles, built-in cameras, heated cabinets, etc.

BTW - the mac/pc paradigm doesn't really exist here. To create your 3D models for the printer you can use whatever software you want (I use Blender mostly, but only because I learned it for 3D modelling previously, otherwise you can try something like sketchup or whatever 'free' tool Autocad is offering these days*). Then you need a slicer, I use Cura but there's also Prusa-Slicer, and many more, most of which work on both PC and my Mac (I use both and they seem to be consistent whichever OS I use).

Have fun, it's a journey, and you can choose how much pain fun you want

PS, I forgot, I've printed lots of things for the bus. Speaker trays, radio brackets, heater control rod bushes, RPM gauge surround, utility hooks, camping size salt and pepper shakers, rubber (yes rubber) grommets, hose connectors, reducers, adapters, and spigots, washers, spacers, even nuts and bolts (like you get for number plates), a clutch centering tool, nut and bolt gauges... And then there are all the toys you can print for kids/grandkids/yourself... it really is the best tool I've ever bought.

*There's no such thing as free

 

[Ben72Bay]

So finally where cost is concerned, well how much do you have to spend?

I got started with my Creality Ender 3 for about £175 and that was fine until I wanted more out of it.
A Prusa will set you back £400 upwards of I recall but as I have mentioned, they just work.
A Bambu will set you back £1600+ but goddamn you won't want for anything after that.

As for resin look at spending about £250 for an Anycubic or Elegoo 4k, double that for 8k or a print bed size increase. Then about £150 for a wash and cure station and about £30 for gloves and filters and IPA for washing the prints, no not the beer! You can get water washable resin but it's not as strong.

Materials wise, filament runs from an average of £20 a roll for basic PLA up to £100s for exotics such as brass or the super luxury woods. A roll will last you ages and if you want to treat it like it wants to be a roll dryer will set you back about £60, or you can use an oven.
Resin runs to about £35 for a bottle of basic grey resin. Look to spend double that for ABS like resin and £100+ for specialist resins such as dental or flexible. This will also last you ages as long as you keep it wasm and in a dark place. Resin does not like to be used when it's cold.

Beyond that throw as much money at it as your wallet wants or allows. I've spent a few hundreds on my Creality improving things like bed leveling, friction free rails, silent motors etc and my cheap starter model will keep up with the big boys.

The one thing I'd say to not give any thought to yet is metal printing. Unless you have tens of thousands to spend, it's still not at hobby level.

The only other thing I can think of is the software. Most of it is device agnostic as the printers don't care because all they want to see is the .STL file on a usb stick. A good slicer like Lychee is simple to learn and if you're into modelling there's a lot of good free stuff out there including the tricky to use but amazing Blender.

So with all that go and have fun. There's not a lot out there being done for cars especially the VW side of things. I'd say maybe start with printing some existing models and seeing what you can improve on. Alternatively start modelling some things and get them printed for you and see what you think.

My only warning, it's addictive, especially the Creality constant tuning side of the hobby. Most of my learning was making my printer better. Think of it as an air cooled engine, there always something to polish, make lighter, faster, prettier.

Have fun and feel free to DM me if you want help or even something printing while you're learning.

Jamie

@hotrodthug
Wow Jamie!
Thank you so much for all that info, I really appreciate it!
I’ll go and read it a few times over and have a look at the options available.
Don’t even know what I want to print yet!!!!

 

[Ben72Bay]

I second the Creality and Prusa mentions, both printers I have experience with.

I would choose based on what ratio of money/free time you have...

If you get the Creality, the first things you will probably print are upgrades for the printer then as you play and experiment you will be buying new nozzles, new extruders, new boards, compiling your own firmware, retrofitting a touch screen, buying new print surfaces, fitting a raspberry pi with a camera or three, etc etc (ask me how I know). It's fun but that costs time and money.

If you don't want to do all that get a Prusa. You can buy it in a kit as mentioned or you can buy it ready-built for a bit more money, but they are solid and dependable printers.

There are a lot more printers on the market that are more expensive than the Prusa, and for not a huge amount more benefit, unless you want dual nozzles, built-in cameras, heated cabinets, etc.

BTW - the mac/pc paradigm doesn't really exist here. To create your 3D models for the printer you can use whatever software you want (I use Blender mostly, but only because I learned it for 3D modelling previously, otherwise you can try something like sketchup or whatever 'free' tool Autocad is offering these days*). Then you need a slicer, I use Cura but there's also Prusa-Slicer, and many more, most of which work on both PC and my Mac (I use both and they seem to be consistent whichever OS I use).

Have fun, it's a journey, and you can choose how much pain fun you want

PS, I forgot, I've printed lots of things for the bus. Speaker trays, radio brackets, heater control rod bushes, RPM gauge surround, utility hooks, camping size salt and pepper shakers, rubber (yes rubber) grommets, hose connectors, reducers, adapters, and spigots, washers, spacers, even nuts and bolts (like you get for number plates), a clutch centering tool, nut and bolt gauges... And then there are all the toys you can print for kids/grandkids/yourself... it really is the best tool I've ever bought.

*There's no such thing as free

Thanks @Coda
Think my next step is watching some videos to get my head around how it all actually works!!

 

[KezBoy]

I have printed a few parts for my bus including a decorative surround for the air vents and parts for the roof.

When I refurbished the roof on my Devon I curved the roof to allow water to run off rather than form a large puddle. I then fitted a new air vert and 3D printed a large interlocking spacer which changed the curved roof back flat so the mounting vent then reinforced the curved roof. Similar curved plates fitted inside the roof to the underside acted as large washers. It was some years back when I did the vent and only have a couple photo’s but hopefully shows what can be made.

I’m now on my second Creality printer having found them very useful for lots of jobs.

 

[ozziedog]

I have printed a few parts for my bus including a decorative surround for the air vents and parts for the roof.

When I refurbished the roof on my Devon I curved the roof to allow water to run off rather than form a large puddle. I then fitted a new air vert and 3D printed a large interlocking spacer which changed the curved roof back flat so the mounting vent then reinforced the curved roof. Similar curved plates fitted inside the roof to the underside acted as large washers. It was some years back when I did the vent and only have a couple photo’s but hopefully shows what can be made.

I’m now on my second Creality printer having found them very useful for lots of jobs.

That was always the issue with the earlier Devon roofs in that the flat roof and gasket set up could only form a large puddle leading to the weight of water gradually forcing that roof section to bow and increase the cycles of puddle / excess weight / bigger puddle etc etc. I’ve fitted a 76 onwards Devon roof which is ace to my triggers broom of a van however I’d really like the later roof but with the concertina fabric to be the top solution. I shudder to think what I might come up with if I had a printer, they look absolutely awesome but my list of jobs gets bigger every year not smaller, itd be mayhem if I was printing stuff too.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,, but I am thinking about it

 

[KezBoy]

That was always the issue with the earlier Devon roofs in that the flat roof and gasket set up could only form a large puddle leading to the weight of water gradually forcing that roof section to bow and increase the cycles of puddle / excess weight / bigger puddle etc etc. I’ve fitted a 76 onwards Devon roof which is ace to my triggers broom of a van however I’d really like the later roof but with the concertina fabric to be the top solution. I shudder to think what I might come up with if I had a printer, they look absolutely awesome but my list of jobs gets bigger every year not smaller, itd be mayhem if I was printing stuff too.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,, but I am thinking about it

The Devon roof wasn’t the best design and was the first job I did when I took ownership as it was leaking badly. I replaced the flimsy aluminium and reshaped the roof using hardwood gently curved using a 3D printed guide to give I think a curve radius of 6.5m. I then used the flat 3D printed spacer to mount the vent all with the same curve radius. All rivets were closed caped with epoxy underneath to ensure all stayed watertight, water now runs off and has been fine for the last 3 plus years.

I was pretty pleased with the result and the lifting mechanism works well with the stronger JK springs

 

[AircooledKate]

My wife has one of those for cleaning jewellery! I used it to clean the carb for my 1971 scooter

I’ve never wanted one for jewellery but NOW I think I need one, got a few carbs here that could do with a good sonic clean.