Engine upgrade

[mike202]

I am thinking of trying to improve my 1600 twin port engine. Just to give me a bit more power so that on inclines I don’t slow down as much. I have a 1970 Westy poptop. The engine was a new VW Mexico installed 7 years ago.
There is a kit available from Limebug to change the cylinder heads etc so it becomes a 1641cc. Probably most people would add that also installing twin carbs is a good upgrade.

This is not going to be cheap, so is it worth it or should I save up for a 1776 engine. Has anybody got any experience of upgrading and is the return in power increase worth the money?

Any opinions welcome [emoji120] [emoji3]


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[67westy]

Hey Mike,

I did a few updates when I decided to get a new engine I opted for the 1641 and twin 34 icts along with a vintage speed exhaust. I doubt the cc upgrade made a huge difference but every little counts and the cost was minimal when getting a new engine. Biggest gains were from the carbs and exhaust so if I were you I would go that route first. If you decide to go for a bigger displacement they won't go to waste.

Happy with that setup and don't feel a need for anything bigger at the moment.


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[K@rlos]

You don't need different cylinder heads to build a 1641. You'll feel a difference if combined with twin carbs and a better exhaust but personally I'd go at least 1776 in a bus. 90-100hp and plenty of torque is easily attainable from a basic 1776 with ported stock heads, better cam and twin carbs. 36 IDF's work lovely and you'll see better economy if its set up right.

 

[sa-notta]

What @K@rlos said /\ , a 1776 with Engle 100 cam, Twin 40's and a vintage speed exhaust will see you a reliable 100bhp (about 88 at the wheels) - these are figures from an actual real-life setup

 

[graysummers]

1641? Is that an overbore that works much better on lighter vehicles? Thinking of the type 1 Beetle. The heads on my bought inherent 1641 engine in my bus showed cracks (mine needed replacing and I ended up buying a top half engine) which may be because the engine may have run a little hot at some stage. I certainly pushed it on the Welsh hills surrounding my daily journeys. A bread bin shaped heavy vehicle to get from A to Z and over many unlooked for Welsh country stress linked terrains. This ‘could’ have been because it was a larger bore. More stress and unknowns inherent. Can’t say with expertise, but please enquire. You mention getting up inclines. I live in hilly Wales. Maybe that’s the difference. I know it gets very technical and more so on enquiry. I remember looking when my original 1641 was ‘head cracked’. Advice I read at the time was to go higher. Then. I decided ‘stock’. Why? I trust the VW guys that designed the bus originally. Gentler life then. But same roads on the maps. Just drive with gentle endeavour. But I’m a technophobe, so maybe I’m in la la land. Below are the photos of the cracks.

 

[mike202]

Thanks guys, something to think about. I would like a 1776cc so I’ll have to save up [emoji23]
This would probably deliver a real power increase that I want. I am not after top end speed or even massive drag strip acceleration. I would like to maintain about 60 ish on the motorway.
Then again with the cost of the engine, twin carbs and new exhaust, the Scooby option starts to become a real consideration as well [emoji848]



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[mike202]

1641? Is that an overbore that works much better on lighter vehicles? Thinking of the type 1 Beetle. The heads on my bought inherent 1641 engine in my bus showed cracks (mine needed replacing and I ended up buying a top half engine) which may be because the engine may have run a little hot at some stage. I certainly pushed it on the Welsh hills surrounding my daily journeys. A bread bin shaped heavy vehicle to get from A to Z and over many unlooked for Welsh country stress linked terrains. This ‘could’ have been because it was a larger bore. More stress and unknowns inherent. Can’t say with expertise, but please enquire. You mention getting up inclines. I live in hilly Wales. Maybe that’s the difference. I know it gets very technical and more so on enquiry. I remember looking when my original 1641 was ‘head cracked’. Advice I read at the time was to go higher. Then. I decided ‘stock’. Why? I trust the VW guys that designed the bus originally. Gentler life then. But same roads on the maps. Just drive with gentle endeavour. But I’m a technophobe, so maybe I’m in la la land. [emoji15] Below are the photos of the cracks.

Gray, I am not really sure what is involved as I am not a mechanic and would leave the work to someone who is.
If I had better facilities at home ie more space I might have a go at the engine but alas that’s not the case.


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[72baywesty]

We have a 1776 twin carbs etc. It's set up for bottom end power and the van(fully loaded westy + air awning + mountain bikes etc etc) pulls really well now it's set up properly. However(I'm ready to be shot) I'm firmly in the subaru camp for a couple of reasons, even tho we went a/c (subaru conversions were just starting to be available)
1. cost a good Scooby set up isn't going to cost anymore than buying a 1776 and all the bits needed to make it work.
2. Ease of use / reliability plenty of garages can work on subaru lumps as opposed to air cooled ( it's nigh on impossible to find a good aircooled engine tuner), certainly around here there's loads of so called experts that don't deliver.


BUT bear in mind subaru converted buses don't seam to be as sellable/ valuable if/ when it has to go

 

[K@rlos]

What @K@rlos said /\ , a 1776 with Engle 100 cam, Twin 40's and a vintage speed exhaust will see you a reliable 100bhp (about 88 at the wheels) - these are figures from an actual real-life setup

Perfect spec other than the vintage speed, they should be cut up and thrown in the bin. Overpriced, badly made and restrictive as hell

 

[K@rlos]

1641? Is that an overbore that works much better on lighter vehicles? Thinking of the type 1 Beetle. The heads on my bought inherent 1641 engine in my bus showed cracks (mine needed replacing and I ended up buying a top half engine) which may be because the engine may have run a little hot at some stage. I certainly pushed it on the Welsh hills surrounding my daily journeys. A bread bin shaped heavy vehicle to get from A to Z and over many unlooked for Welsh country stress linked terrains. This ‘could’ have been because it was a larger bore. More stress and unknowns inherent. Can’t say with expertise, but please enquire. You mention getting up inclines. I live in hilly Wales. Maybe that’s the difference. I know it gets very technical and more so on enquiry. I remember looking when my original 1641 was ‘head cracked’. Advice I read at the time was to go higher. Then. I decided ‘stock’. Why? I trust the VW guys that designed the bus originally. Gentler life then. But same roads on the maps. Just drive with gentle endeavour. But I’m a technophobe, so maybe I’m in la la land. Below are the photos of the cracks.

Those cracks have absolutely nothing to do with the capacity of the engine. I've seen that on stock 1200's and 2276cc race motors. That is a common issue with aircooled vw engines, its due to excessive heat.

 

[K@rlos]

We have a 1776 twin carbs etc. It's set up for bottom end power and the van(fully loaded westy + air awning + mountain bikes etc etc) pulls really well now it's set up properly. However(I'm ready to be shot) I'm firmly in the subaru camp for a couple of reasons, even tho we went a/c (subaru conversions were just starting to be available)
1. cost a good Scooby set up isn't going to cost anymore than buying a 1776 and all the bits needed to make it work.
2. Ease of use / reliability plenty of garages can work on subaru lumps as opposed to air cooled ( it's nigh on impossible to find a good aircooled engine tuner), certainly around here there's loads of so called experts that don't deliver.


BUT bear in mind subaru converted buses don't seam to be as sellable/ valuable if/ when it has to go

Call me old fashioned but Subaru engines belong in Subaru's

 

[72baywesty]

Your right however in the real world vw engine set up is a black art especially if it's not standard. Kudos to the people that can set them up however I'm not one of them. Everything else including paint and wiring no problem. It's taken me 4 years to get it running right one so called specialist caused an engine fire( he's highly recommended on all the forums!!!!), not by me!
From this perspective the subaru makes sense as pretty much every garage has a code reader and can diagnose / fix the problem... mention points nowadays and see what reaction you get.
At the end of the day each to there own,

 

[lemur]

........or you could say "Subaru engines belong wherever you bloody well like!" :lol:


Still loving mine, blasted loads of miles/holidays in this year and only lifted the engine lid to check the usual was fine (and it was)

Liam

 

[vinvan]

Have a word with "atafonso" on this forum, he built our 1776 with twin webber 34ict's and a vintage speed exhaust, runs like a dream, not fast but plenty of toque
He is old school VW and knows his stuff, easy to talk to and wont give you any bullshit
based in Wrexham
PS his name is Able
Vinvan

 

[K@rlos]

Your right however in the real world vw engine set up is a black art especially if it's not standard. Kudos to the people that can set them up however I'm not one of them. Everything else including paint and wiring no problem. It's taken me 4 years to get it running right one so called specialist caused an engine fire( he's highly recommended on all the forums!!!!), not by me!
From this perspective the subaru makes sense as pretty much every garage has a code reader and can diagnose / fix the problem... mention points nowadays and see what reaction you get.
At the end of the day each to there own,

And that is the problem right there, they rely on code readers. Setting up a carb, timing & valve lash Should not be a difficult task for a competent mechanic who should hopefully knows how an engine actually works. I’m a truck mechanic for a living on modern Volvo trucks and use a 7 grand diagnostic computer which doesn’t tell you everything. Sometimes you have to go old skool and use your brain. And no I’m not an old bloke reminiscing about the old days :lol: I’m not even 30

 

[graysummers]

“The heads on my bought inherent 1641 engine in my bus showed cracks (mine needed replacing and I ended up buying a top half engine) which may be because the engine may have run a little hot at some stage”.

Those cracks have absolutely nothing to do with the capacity of the engine. I've seen that on stock 1200's and 2276cc race motors. That is a common issue with aircooled vw engines, its due to excessive heat.

Thanks Karlos. I did mention getting hot. I’m not great with engine knowledge. But I have read that heads crack from all sorts of reasons.

Especially........http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/vw-cracked-head.html which was an interesting read.