Front wheel arches, panel supply and construction!

[angus]

Right - now I have got myself a slightly more modern welder than my 1992 SIP Handymate, I have discovered the joys of (relatively) decent welding, so I am going to start tackling some of the bits on my van.

I'm lucky in that there isn't a huge amount, but one area that does need attention is the front wheel arches. Years ago, we repaired these by welding some new panels over the old ones that were 80% still ok - just the edges gone. But that has left a nasty under-view of rough edges and dirt traps, so I may cut out all the layers and start again.

Quite hard to see what is going on in those pics, but basicaly I am sure I am missing an 'inner' step? Should there be a box section here?!

So - 2 questions. Does anyone know of a diagram that shows up the exact construction of various inner/outer layers around this area - all I have are the generally small illustrations used by the retailers to identify parts - I want a better look at things to see if I want to get a whole wheel arch, or just some of the smaller step inner/outer parts.

2nd question - I know a lot of the repair panel quality is pretty poor - but where would you shop for decent front wheel arches ad a few other bits and pieces. Don't need big panels like front skins, side skins etc - just a few 'detail' parts....

 

[angus]

Anyone got any pics under the front of their van, looking at this inner wheel arch area, around the step?

 

[Guest]

i would start by stripping back all the paint on the wheel arch to see how bad the rust actually is, and if you need a complete new arch. it looks like the filler is quite thick in areas. My arch is the same but im replacing it completely, which probably isnt the best solution, keep as much metal as you can etc., but i wont be worried about rust coming back after prep and painting.

 

[angus]

Thats what I am thinking Johnny - I only want to do it once - where are you going to get your arches from? Are most people selling, selling the same bit (same source?)

 

[Guest]

If you can afford it get rust free import offcuts from somewhere like FBI in Swansea, a good set will cost £200, or Schofields for good repros, be aware that the earlystyle flat with no lip are not made by vw anymore. I think a good set of repro arches are about £160. Most people report that they take a bit of fettling to fit. Cheap repros are £50ish each GSF stock them.

I have a set of repros for sale if the other two are out of your budget .

 

[noddy]

Schofield panels dont fit that well require lots of tweaking to get them to fit and the gap at the bottom of the door to the step always ends up to big, if going for repro panels try:
Auto craft Engineers Ltd.
204 Westbury Road
Nuneaton
Warks.
CB10 8HH.
Tel.024 7639 8217

The guys that run it use to supply Jaguar with prototype panels, there stuff is suposed to be very good never used it myself. Allegedly schofield restores his vans with their panels.

Salvaged panels are the way to go in my option (will be best fit because they are OEM pressings), just drill the spot weld out with a spot weld drill from http://www.frost.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, apply weld through zinc primer along seam edges and puddle weld through the holes drilled when removing the spot welds.

Hope info is of some help.

Ian

 

[Guest]

I didnt know they do panels too? i thought it was just bug and split?

heres a link to the current catalogue anyway

http://www.autocrafteng.co.uk/webcatalogue.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but doesnt say if they do bay?, although the website has a bay section its empty.

 

[noddy]

Hi Jonny

can be sure they currently make bay stuff, but I'm sure they would make to order. I assume it might be costly though, unless there is enough demand, and considering no one really supports with early bay dog legs I guess they would be interested.

This is the main reason I suggested original panels as they are the best fit currently available, and require only minor tweaking to get them to fit well.

 

[angus]

Cheers Noddy - usefull stuff...

 

[Hilly_70]

Hi angus ..

I just fitted some Scofield full arches ...

To be honest they were quite a way off fitting as a full unit .. I needed to 'stretch' the front of the step section by about an inch as they were too small to fit into the gap where the old step was .. also on one side, the outer skin bulged out slightly too much and didn't look right ..

I had to get them on for vanfest though .. I'll be posting the pictures soon so you can see the fit ..

.. to be honest if I was to do it again, I would definitely go for cuts .. I might even do it anyway, and take these off ..

Hilly

 

[Guest]

was the front edge an inch to low?

 

[angus]

Well, having had a look at a full-arch repair panel at C. Air yesterday, I'll be seeing what I can do with what I already have! Quite shocked by the low quality, even if it was a low-price option! Not a straight crease anywhere, and most of the metal looked like it was paper-mache, with the amount of ripples and folds in it!
I may still use some inner/outer step parts, but I'll stick with tidying up the rest of the arch!
Still - finally had a look under a bay step, and figured out that I don't have the 'inner' section at all - the bit that creates the box section - so thats first on the list!!

 

[Haveacamper]

i've just bought a set of arches off fbi drom a donar van. i will be tryiong fit these along with the rest of the front end in the coming months.

 

[angus]

I think that is the way to go...do you mind me asking roughly what you paid? (PM if preferred)

 

[Clarkson46]

When fitting the inner step, check that the holes for the bumper step are in the right place. On the panels we had, can't remember where from, they were miles out. So offer up your bumper to check alignment before welding. Also with the inner step ours had no captive nuts fitted. What we did was to drill a piece a steel strap at the correct centres and weld 2 bolts to the strap so that the bolts hung down ready to take the step supports.

 

[Hilly_70]

Hi Johnny ..

The step to the bottom of the door was a bit out but not too bad .. the step to the A post was about 20mm short and the width of the step at the front was way too wide .. so it all had to be changed ..

... my holes for the bumper were miles out too ... but i didn't check before welding .. its got one in for the moment !

Hilly

 

[Hilly_70]

.. oh and I saw some decent ones from FBI at vanfest for around £75 each ... thats not much more than shit repro ..

Hilly

 

[angus]

Good point on bumper bolts - I noticed that the 'complete' arches had the captured buts, but the seperate inner piece just had holes - but then again today, one complete at JK didn't have captured nuts either!!
I'll have to make something up as you suggest Clarkson. I have bought some inner step panels - had another look at what I have, and figure I can do a better job with the original metal that is there, but I don't have any inner panels at all at the moment - hence the droopy bumper ends!

 

[Haveacamper]

sorry for the late reply, i've only just spotted the update.

think it was abotu £200 a pair. this is partially due to '72 arches being are one year only. they were also cut bigger so i had some of the A-pillar and B-pillar - allowing me to cur down to exact size

NaFe

 

[AndrewHS]

Having been in the restoration business for a good many years I can assure you (from painful experience) that there is another factor to consider in the use of repro parts & front arches are perfect example. About 7 years ago I replaced both front arches on my van using repro parts, (I can't remember whose, but I think they're all much the same). They sort of 'fitted where they touched' and took a lot of work to get an acceptable fit under the door along with a reasonable amount of lead to get the surface and curves right. This year I find that they have perforated all along their length from B post to bottom step, despite seam welding and rust treatment of the box section. It would seem that they suffer the same problem as 60s & 70s Italian cars, ie they are made from a poor quality steel that seems to have enough oxygen incorporated into the material so that it rusts from within the steel itself, no matter what you do. The steel tends to be thinner than the original too as then the press tools don't need to be as large or expensive. This is one manifestation of the eternal problem of repro parts (the metalurgy itself): they may look good, they may work well (for a while), but they may be more time consuming to fit and remember, if they're significantly cheaper than the original there's probably a jolly good reason!
My arches? I got some originals off Graham at FBI and will be fitting those in due course, with galloons of rust proofer. As this is no longer a workhorse needing to be fixed at any cost I don't want to be doing this for a THIRD time.