Full Flow Oil conversion

[Raggles]

Wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction here.

I am in the middle of installing a full flow system on my 1600TP. The upper oil Gallery has been opened and tapped to receive a brass elbow for the return. I have an Empi pump cover with the side exit. Does anyone have a suggestion for a fitting for this cover as the threaded barb supplied conflicts with the engine mount from the moustache bar?

Any photos of how others have worked around this and possible mount positions for the filter would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[K@rlos]

Use a 45 degree elbow out of the pump

 

[K@rlos]

 

[Raggles]

Use a 45 degree elbow out of the pump

Thanks Karlos ... perfect.

You don't happen to know where I can source a 45 degree elbow?

 

[K@rlos]

I know coolair stock them or any hydraulic pipe place will do

 

[atafonso]

I use the same type fitting but i place the hose going upwards, that way it goes close to the top one and it makes a very neat installation.
I also tap a bit more the cover so i can get the fitting as close as i can to the cover, most of the times i don't have to do any clearancing on the moustache bar.
You can get the fitting from Heritage or Cool Air too.
Abel

 

[Raggles]

I use the same type fitting but i place the hose going upwards, that way it goes close to the top one and it makes a very neat installation.
I also tap a bit more the cover so i can get the fitting as close as i can to the cover, most of the times i don't have to do any clearancing on the moustache bar.
You can get the fitting from Heritage or Cool Air too.
Abel

Thanks Abel,

This is really helpful. Where do you mount the filter itself?

 

[K@rlos]

Spend a bit more and have some oil pipes made with crimped on AN fittings rather than just push on barbs and jubilee clips.

 

[atafonso]

Spend a bit more and have some oil pipes made with crimped on AN fittings rather than just push on barbs and jubilee clips.

This has worked FOR ME flawlesly, is not that i use cheap fittings. Normally the crimped hoses fittings will not have the right I.D. and will restrict flow. AN are too bulky and will not allow the same type of installation. I use AN in Beetles, etc not in Buses. That's just MY humble opinion.

@Raggles: I fit a right hand ports filter bracket under the leisure battery tray, i use bolts from the top of the tray down with rounded allen heads, thin stainless washers and nyloc nuts, they clear the battery perfectly. The filter is placed sideways as it makes it easier to remove the filter plus it's not messy for the oil to drip down leaving your hands clean

Abel

 

[Raggles]

Spend a bit more and have some oil pipes made with crimped on AN fittings rather than just push on barbs and jubilee clips.

This has worked FOR ME flawlesly, is not that i use cheap fittings. Normally the crimped hoses fittings will not have the right I.D. and will restrict flow. AN are too bulky and will not allow the same type of installation. I use AN in Beetles, etc not in Buses. That's just MY humble opinion.

@Raggles: I fit a right hand ports filter bracket under the leisure battery tray, i use bolts from the top of the tray down with rounded allen heads, thin stainless washers and nyloc nuts, they clear the battery perfectly. The filter is placed sideways as it makes it easier to remove the filter plus it's not messy for the oil to drip down leaving your hands clean

Abel

Thanks, that's a much appreciated steer.

I read somewhere that it is important to avoid an airlock during installation .. any suggestions on this.

I thought I might crank the engine over without the filter attached initially until the oil was exiting the feed. Then fill the filter with oil and screw on and crank again to ensure oil was coming from the return. Then attach the hose back to the engine. Is there anymore I should be doing?

 

[atafonso]

There is no possibilty of having air lock in the oil, even if you place the oil filter upside down like some early Ferrari's, it will still work no problem.
Now what you mentioned is actually priming the oil system; that's a great thing to do. If not done, the engine will turn for a while with no pressurized lubrication and it can cause scores on the bearings, crank, etc. These parts they run not metal to metal, but on a film of oil which is pressurized. If there is no pressure, the film is reduced and quickly forced out, resulting in a metal to metal condition bringing damage.

Disconnect the coil lead, and do as you said in the last paragraph, only not checking the return as it's not necessary. If you prime the pump first, then fit the filter full of oil (filled from the outside holes not big centered one) just connect the hose from the pump after priming to the filter bracket and crank the engine a bit to get instant pressure.

Abel

 

[K@rlos]

Yes make sure you prime the oil system. Fill the oil filter up and as said disconnect the cool lead and spin it over till the light goes out. I take the plugs out also so the starter doesn't work so hard.

 

[Raggles]

The pump is new and the engine is newly built. Following the instructions in the Tom Wilson book I put a couple of blobs of vasoline/white grease in the pump prior to fitting. I have read (can't recall where) that a method of priming the pump further is to pour oil down the exit hose from the pump cover using a funnel and crank the engine by hand backwards drawing the oil down and through the pump (approx 500ml) and this will ensure the system is fully primed.

Any thoughts on this .... after all the work involved I really don't want to risk any damage on initial fire up by having oil starvation.

How long should it take using the starter motor before the oil pressure light goes out and how much longer after this should I crank the engine prior to initial fire up ... assuming that the standard pressure switch is at the bottom end of what the oil pressure would desirably be?

 

[atafonso]

I have a priming pump i made using an original oil pump driven by a drill. I connect it to the input oil line and i fill the engine with oil from there while turning it. Then i do the procedure as i described in the previous post. I can take a pic of my setup on Monday if you want, it's attached to my stand.

If you want to do the priming pump is quite easy, just bolt the cover and pump together and secure it in a convenient place, weld a piece of 1/4" ratchet extension to the shaft of the pump gear that would connect to the camshaft. Drive the pump with a flexible extension with your drill. Tap the inlet for a 3/8" NPT barbed fitting, the outlet to a 1/4"NPT fitting. Connect the outlet of pump to the engine and the inlet to the oil jar.

I also take the plugs out to ease the starter, to spin a bit faster and reduce even more the load on the rod bearings and everything else.
It can take sometimes 10-20 seconds to build pressure depending on how well you did the procedure. After light goes out, keep cranking for another 2 or 3 sessions of 10-15 seconds before connecting the coil lead to allow the filter to trap any particles with ease.

Oil pressure on a properly rebuilt engine should be around 25-30 psi at idle and around 50-55 psi at max revs using 20w50 Valvoline VR1( these figures are what i normally get with this oil) and stock pressure springs with a 26mm pump. If you don't get that, a rule of thumb is at least 10 psi per 1000 rpm's minimum with any oil even thin ones.
Abel

 

[Raggles]

I have a priming pump i made using an original oil pump driven by a drill. I connect it to the input oil line and i fill the engine with oil from there while turning it. Then i do the procedure as i described in the previous post.

Presumably this means that I could achieve this by hand cranking the engine backwards via the fan pulley ... though somewhat slowly and inefficiently ... or am I misunderstanding . I did a quick youtube search and turned up this video of what I was thinking about -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyf8LtoPHs

If this would work ... how much oil would it be sensible to run through this way?

 

[sparkywig]

After an oil change I turn mine over with the coil lead disconnected until the oil light goes out, then wait for the level to settle before topping up.

 

[atafonso]

My pump is an external device that performs the function of the pump in the engine without cranking. It pressurizes oil through priming the engine, not the pump. Priming the pump is another procedure, i described how i do it two posts back.
Abel

 

[Raggles]

My pump is an external device that performs the function of the pump in the engine without cranking. It pressurizes oil through priming the engine, not the pump. Priming the pump is another procedure, i described how i do it two posts back.
Abel

Ah .... I was being a bit thick there ... understood now.

Thanks

 

[atafonso]

 

[Raggles]

I have got the engine in the van and hooked up. Went to turn the engine over to prime the pump which went fine but with one rather large hitch ... oil started coming out of the pump cover. I just fitted the paper gasket in the gasket kit with no sealer and torqued to the recommended spec.

Is it possible to remove the pump cover with the engine still in the van ... by jacking up to remove the moustache bar and endeavouring to remove sundry tin and the pulley wheel?

Should I refit the cover with a thin layer of permatex plus paper gasket?