Leisure System & 240V hookup build

[lard]

Hello,

Whilst waiting for my bus to arrive I've started building up all the kit for a 12V leisure battery and 240V hookup,

The plan is as follows:

12V - Leisure Battery with split charge system running a 240V inverter & 12V sockets in the front/rear, stereo & interior lights.

240V - Hookup for site/garage that would run a Charger for the leisure battery and provide 240V sockets for running direct mains within the van.

So with this in mind I've been looking around at the great advise on VZi and this site - the traditional way is to install a Zig unit that handles the 240V/12V system switching but is expensive (this build is done on a moderate budget) - advice on here is to run a leisure system and use a 3 or 4 stage charger attached to the hookup via a consumer unit to emulate the fancy switching of the Zig - my first error was to purchase a bottom range inverter....as the next model up includes a 12V input from battery and also a 240V input from the mains which means I could run all 13Amp sockets from the inverter, with power being switched automatically from 12 - 240...just like the Zig does - as it is I'll run with what I have and look to upgrade in the future (not intending to run kettles e.t.c. so inverted power should be fine for a laptop e.t.c.)

Hopefully this thread will be of use to others looking at the same install

I'll post up a wiring diagram once I've created it (scribbles at the moment on paper) - the intention is to update this thread with progress starting from what I bought, wiring diagram, system tested on the bench, then installation in the van

My van is a 71 US Westy import so I'll also be using a US plug and replacing internal wiring to the new consumer unit......as the van is with Midland Early Bay at the moment this will come later once I've pulled it apart to see if it's viable running from the intake into the space under the bench or to mount a UK plug in the boot..

This is the shopping list of kit I bought for the install:

Towsure - (paid £5 for budget delivery...didn't despatch it for 10 days :shock - http://www.towsure.com/

B136, BATTERY CLAMPS Q/R PAIR , 2 @ £7.60, £15.20. <---- these are quick release battery clamps, well worth the cost!

E15, INVERTER - 500 WATT (12/240VT) , 1 @ £38.50, £38.50. <---- 500W Maypole Inverter for 12V>240V, the 1000W has 240V input to switch between supplies

H78, RELAY - DUAL CHARGE SMARTCOM , 1 @ £9.95, £9.95. <---- Going the smartcon split charge route rather than relay - this just means not having to run a wire from ignition, just go from the clamps of the main battery to the leisure battery via the smartcom box and it should detect when the battery is in full charge mode and switch to also charge the leisure battery

FH6, INLINE BLADE FUSE HOLDER - (30 AMP), 3 @ £1.95, £5.85. <----- for placing between the batteries and smartcom box

C321, SINGLE CABLE - 32 AMP (METRE) , 10 @ £0.75, £7.50. <----- This is for the 12V system, 2.5mm cable

Kit from The 12Volt Shop - (really nice people, 1p delivery and came next day!) http://www.the12voltshop.co.uk/

Fuse Box 12-pole 12/24Volt RIP-5026B, £29.96 <----- This is the 12V Fuse box for the leisure system to separately fuse the kit running off this battery, also used to connect the charger back into the 12V system

TE-PB12V6A - Pro-Budget Battery Charger 12V 6A (STE-PB12V6A), £68.43 <----- The charger will be hard wired into the system to charge when on hookup as the split charge system will take quite a long time to recharge a battery (but is good for replacing charge from a fridge running whilst on the move) - good thing about this one (made by Sterling) is that when it's finished charging and on idle it also acts as a power pack meaning you can run from 12V whilst it's connected

Finally Screw-Fix (quick and good prices!) - http://www.screwfix.co.uk

63138 Volex 2-Way RCD Garage Consumer Uni, £36.42 <--- Consumer unit for in the bus, small & comes with RCD, 6A & 16A MCB's

34494 Volex 13A 2G DP Sw Skt Blk Ins Matt, £7.80 <--- This is a nice flush mounting 13Amp socket to mount in the kickboard and wire into the inverter

37465 Volex 2G 29mm Surface Box £2.28 <----For socket above

28554 Volex Switch Socket DP 2G 13A £3.18 <--- Single white plastic double pole socket for wiring into the consumer unit and powering the charger, acutally found a nicer metal clad surface mount one in my garage so won't be using this!

Finally a leisure battery from halfords - 70Ah HLB678 £89.99 - bit dubious as I'd rather order online and get gel batteries but as I can pick this up and may need to increase the rating in the future thought I'd take a punt on generic leisure battery before investing in a top end one.

240V system

Below we have the kit for the 240V system including the US plug, only missing bit is the Hookup cable and sockets - also going to use a generic 240V outdoor extension cable for the 240V wiring as this is stranded cable:

12V system

All pretty complete for this - includes the smartcom unit e.t.c

That's progress so far - I'll post the wiring diagram once made - though this one from VZi is close to what I'm doing (thanks to fancy-bug!!) http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=502028 - except I'll be leaving out the Zig, placing an inverter in for 13Amp sockets and placing a charger from the 240V socket pictured and connecting into the fusebox - also using a smartcom rather than relay for split charge pictured:

UPDATE 10/08/09

Here is my wiring diagram adapted from the original Zig method:

UPDATE 03/10/09

Updated wiring diagram with addition of switch for essential's to main battery:

Hopefully this is of use to anyone else looking into doing similar!

Any comments/thoughts/pointers welcome

 

[uber cool]

This is one of my 'to do' job, :roll:
So will be watching with interest, looks like a well documented start, keep it coming :mrgreen:

 

[Sparky]

Looking good so far. Just a couple of points:
1) You'll need some way of switching the 240V feed from the inverter to the hookup otherwise the inverter will have 240V connected to its output (something to generally be avoided)
2) There needs to be a way of disconnecting your charger when you are running on the inverter (battery running inverter, inverter running charger, charger charging battery. Nice idea if you can get the efficiency above 100% but as they are all approx 80% you'll just end up with a flat battery.
Arran

 

[lard]

Looking good so far. Just a couple of points:
1) You'll need some way of switching the 240V feed from the inverter to the hookup otherwise the inverter will have 240V connected to its output (something to generally be avoided)
2) There needs to be a way of disconnecting your charger when you are running on the inverter (battery running inverter, inverter running charger, charger charging battery. Nice idea if you can get the efficiency above 100% but as they are all approx 80% you'll just end up with a flat battery.
Arran

hi - thanks for the advice - though think point 2 (and poss 1?) is o.k as the charger will only run from the hookup - I'll have two 13Amp sockets, one from the inverter (for powering end kit) and 1 from the hookup just for powering the charger?

Sound o.k?

Thanks!

 

[Turkish]

Useful post will book mark this as i want to update my system at some point

 

[lard]

Added a wiring diagram now 8)

make more sense?

 

[Sparky]

Yep, no problem with that. Splitting the hookup sockets and the inverter sockets is the simplest solution (and the one most people take) Just have to remember which sockets are powered by which source, don't want to plug the kettle into the inverter powered ones.

Arran

 

[AndyO]

This looks very good and has saved me the hassle of drawing it out myself, in my van there is to be two amps - 1 to run a sub, the other to run 4 speakers.

What gauge wire would I have to run to the fuse box and then subsequently what gauge would I then need to run to each amp?

Thanks for any help

 

[lard]

Hi - take a look at this site - should be able to input the power usage of the amps and distance and calculate the wire & fuse sizes:

http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/systemdesignassistant.swf

EDIT:

Complete overview of wire calculations - interesting site
http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm

 

[AndyO]

Nice one

 

[froggy]

All looks good.
8) 8) 8)

 

[davesmith84]

the 1000W has 240V input to switch between supplies

Does this mean you can feed the inverter 240v input and a 12v input and then run all your 240v sockets from it effectively giving your 240v whether running on batteries or mains?

 

[lard]

the 1000W has 240V input to switch between supplies

Does this mean you can feed the inverter 240v input and a 12v input and then run all your 240v sockets from it effectively giving your 240v whether running on batteries or mains?

Certainly does - a much smarter solution which means no need to have different sockets for inverted or mains power 8)

 

[davesmith84]

Awesome. My only worry is that the inverter has only one socket. How would one go about wiring in other sockets from the inverter?

 

[lard]

Was working from home today so some time to fit the kit into the bus

Installed 240V consumer unit and single socket:

Then installed the 12V fuse board and ran the wiring from the socket to the battery charger, attached to the fuse box main terminals and then attached the inverter:

Didn't feel brave enough to drill through the bulkhead so ran the cables through the spare wheel well with some bits of old hose in the bottom to stop the cables being pinched

Left to do:

Fit double socket into kickboard from inverter
Fit the mains hookup commando socket
Run power to the lights in the rear and 12V sockets in the front from the leisure fuse board

On the cable runs...is it best to go behind the side panels to get into the front? May just install some more 12V sockets in the back and put next to the inverter socket, along with new lights to save having to run any cables around?

The only headache is that it looks like a new rear quarter has been welded in at some point and the rear of the battery tray wasn't attached back in so it's a bit insecure........if I get this tacked back again will the heat affect the paint on the outside of the panel?

 

[lard]

Awesome. My only worry is that the inverter has only one socket. How would one go about wiring in other sockets from the inverter?

I'm just going to wire in a 13 Amp plug into the inverter with a cable going to a twin socket that's mounted in the bottom kick board - not a problem going from a double socket into the inverter as it will shut down if you overload it

 

[AxlFoley]

Thats a nice setup you have there. I like the idea of the inverter, would that power a laptop?

 

[davesmith84]

Hey Lard! Didn't realise this was your bus! I went to visit Gadget at MEB whilst he was lowering your bus. I got roped into undoing the handbrake cable for him! HEHE!

I see that you bought the 500w inverter - so you will be feeding it 12v? Which means when you have mains you will have to use the other socket coming straight off the consumer unit?

 

[lard]

Thats a nice setup you have there. I like the idea of the inverter, would that power a laptop?

Hi - yes, powers my laptop fine as it's around 200W - struggles with a PC - though I did by a 12V-19V converter from ebay that powers the laptop via the 12V socket and leaves the inverter free for a second monitor to play DVD's e.t.c. in the back

Hey Lard! Didn't realise this was your bus! I went to visit Gadget at MEB whilst he was lowering your bus. I got roped into undoing the handbrake cable for him! HEHE!

I see that you bought the 500w inverter - so you will be feeding it 12v? Which means when you have mains you will have to use the other socket coming straight off the consumer unit?

aha! - cheers for sorting it out, handbrake works like a charm :mrgreen:

Yes - will be feeding 12V to it as the model up (1000W) has the additional 240V feed so can switch, I've got it all plumbed in now, as it is I've got a charger in line which act's as a power source if connected so running the inverter from the charger works fine (in testing I disconnected the battery and the charger is connected directly to the 12V fuse box and works fine for providing power)

Have one quick question if anyone has done similar - now I have the leisure setup I'd like to power my 12V sockets & interior lights from the second fuse box - rather than rewiring them I'd like to run a feed from the back of the bus to the front and connect into the existing wiring wiring.

Firstly - what's the best way to run a cable back to front? Under the van?

Secondly, I'll take a look at the wiring diagram but would be nice if I could feed an entire fused circuit on the OG fusebox, otherwise I'll have to put in a connector block and take the feeds into this?

Cheers!

Larry

 

[matt-me]

Hi Larry, been following this thread as i am about to install a leisure battery set up, nothing too complicated, no 240v. My question if you,or anyone, can help; on the first diagram the yellow wire from the relay to the ignition, where doers this fit to? On the instructions that came with my kit, my understanding is that this connects to the alternator. I know you you are going through alternator/regulator issues at the moment, i have an alternator with an internal regulator. Is it ok to connect this wire (your yellow one) to the, in my case, green wire at the alternator or does it have to physically run to the ignition somewhere? I hope this makes sense. If so, can i simply piggy back it to this spade connection at the alternator?

ta Al