Rebuild as stock motor or 1776cc fast road?.....??......??

[who?1]

So the engine which I bought my bus with is starting to weep oil. Its a 1600 single port and totally stock. I have replaced the flywheel seals and rocker gaskets but it is either coming from the oil cooler area or push rod tubes. I also found some metal in the top of one head, looked like a rocker shim has started to go south. It also blows a little blue smoke when I let off going down hill etc.
I have no idea how old or how many miles it has covered. I just changed the oil, fitted new plugs, leads, dissy with electronic ignition, oil cooler gaskets then just ran it. Having done about 10,000 miles since I feel I am now on borrowed time.
So should I rebuild the engine in my bus back to stock or pull the worn out engine, a 1641 single port with 110 can and ict's in my bug which is off the road, and rebuild that as a larger fast road? Would a 1776 built for a bus be OK in a bug at a later date?

Any thoughts?

 

[gr00veg0d]

My two-penneth: I got Laurie Pettit to rebuild my tired 1600SP as a 1776 Twinport, I also put a 1303s beetle gearbox in which gives more relaxed crusing on the motorway. I wouldn't say it was fast road but I get more torque. The same 1776 in a bug would be fun!

 

[K@rlos]

Go 1776, 90.5 bore is the most reilable! 110 cam, 1.25 rockers, stock heads and twin 36's. Sound bus motor right there 8)

 

[K@rlos]

Bigger cc but still thick walled which handles heat better. This is why I picked a 2110 (90.5x82) over a 2276 (94x82)

A single carb will NEVER make the same power as twin carbs, they are resistricive and asthmatic. If twins are set up right they will give noticeable power gains and match, even improve mpg.

 

[who?1]

The 1641 in the bug has been match ported to the manifolds and polished by me and the difference was noticeable. The trouble is the end float. This means it will need align boring so machining to accept 1776 b&p could be at a little more cost. This would be an engine to keep if you get me. Trouble is, sticking the twin carbs into the mix will mean removing the air filter stand I think, and then returning to stock will be an arse!


I take on board the reliability factor and hadn't considered the availability of parts if away on a trip so that is great advice.

Could I rebuild as a twin port with progressive carb and still keep the of air filter? This way I could port polish etc but still look stock.

 

[jonboylaw]

The 1641 in the bug has been match ported to the manifolds and polished by me and the difference was noticeable. The trouble is the end float. This means it will need align boring so machining to accept 1776 b&p could be at a little more cost. This would be an engine to keep if you get me. Trouble is, sticking the twin carbs into the mix will mean removing the air filter stand I think, and then returning to stock will be an arse!


I take on board the reliability factor and hadn't considered the availability of parts if away on a trip so that is great advice.

Could I rebuild as a twin port with progressive carb and still keep the of air filter? This way I could port polish etc but still look stock.

If you Dremmel the swages beneath the filter support you can easily bend it to the vertical position for twin carb clearance. If you want to return to stock you simply bend back down and a quick blob of weld. This is what I did.


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[K@rlos]

A stock twin port head will flow better than a single ported that has been worked. Volkswagen went to twin port because it is a superior design the fact a twin port motor produces more power proves this and when was last time you saw a single port street eliminator or super flow head? If they gave better gains the racers would be using them....

Who: I had twin 36's and cut out the filter stand but sadly had to go back stock so I used a beetle oil bath as a stand in.

 

[jonboylaw]

I'll be constructive here,
The OP said he did not want to REMOVE the stand, my suggestion allows the stand to be bent out of the way and easily reinstated if needed, should Who wish to go twin carbs.

Balancing will bring little benefit in a low revving engine, should it be done then all parts should be balanced individually to allow replacement at a later date. This is the work of a specialist shop.
Porting/flowing/polishing will cause lower flow rates at low rpm and may lead to fuel drop out and lead to a nice flat spot. Narrow ports flow faster at low rpm.

For torque, the cheapest and most effective increase is an increase in displacement, ideally in stroke.





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[faux]

I decided on a 1776 with everything stock bar b&p. I has been ultra reliable and pulls like a train. Not fast but talky.

 

[Anonymous]

do what it says on the tin and drive the fukker 8)

 

[john the horse]

do what it says on the tin and drive the fukker 8)

i like, run the bollocks outta it.

jth

 

[who?1]

Thanks all, love a lively debate.

FYI - Last week we went to Falmouth for CVOC Jamboree and Santa Pod, I reckon thats getting on for over 600 miles, this weekend I am going to Lyme Regis then Malvern for Busfest on Sunday, another 300 miles or so, I am driving it how it should but when I find metal in the rocker covers this usually means something aint gonna last that much longer! :shock: :shock:

I am making plans for when it does go pop!! I have a 1641sp in my bug that needs rebuilding so I plan to rebuild this, but ultimately it will go back in the bug as a fast road engine so should I build it to 1776 twin port and, can I sensibly run it on a single carb and keep the og oil bath air filter etc? Once this engine is sorted I will rebuild the 1600sp currently in the westy. Or suffer having the Westy off the road while the sp is being rebuilt?

My thoughts now are to just pull the 1600sp and rebuild it as stock but have all bits balanced so it performs well and is A1 reliable.

 

[dubdubz]

I built a balanced 1745 so 76 counterweighted crank and standard top end

well std larger valves - it was a pain in terms of tinware - and barrel shims to set CR - I would if I had to do it again go 1776

BUT if my engine goes pop I can nip to GSF and grab a std head and or valves and or rockers

The argument doesn't really stack up - as my pistons have modified skirts and are balanced, the pushrods are also cut to length so a bent one wouldn't easily be replaced.

BUT in answer to your original query - you can keep 1600 - balance everything or at least set tolerances better, and do twin carbs and head work.
BUT if torque is what you want then additional cc is required - best bus engine combo imo is 76 x 90.5 - keeps costs down, no crazy brake upgrades - or massive carbs - reasonable fuel economy.