Sound deadening

[aogrady]

Interesting stuff but it sounds like your expecting a 40 year old van to sound like a new car!

I'm doing it more for insulation than sound deadening and if it does kill some noise (which I personally think it will, engine for sure at least) then it's an added bonus.

I have a bare rolling shell at the moment so I'd rather do it and regret it later than not do it at all :lol: £200 is a drop in the ocean compared to what this vans going to cost.

likewise - my primary reason was insulation for the panels - the fact that it may reduce noise is a bonus

I'd be inclinded to do it for noise reduction, with insulation as a bonus, with thin single glassed glass, the heat will go out there, unless you double glaze it. You can put as much insulation as you like in the floors and sides, the windows aren't helping. I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference bettween insulation behind 3mm thick ply on the sides. Cheap soundproofing, cheap insulation, lag your current heater tubes etc and spend the money you have saved on a Propex!

Insulation and sound deadening is tricky, there isn't much that does a perfect job of each, this is why I used the roofing flashing for sound deadening, 2 layers, which vastly improve the "drum" noise, and then loft insulation and silver reflective bubble wrap.
I am also going to use some truck bed liner on the undersides, for rustproofing (though i have already tackeled this) and for it's sound deadening property's, also it'll be body colour. Anything that can add mass to a panel will stop vibrations and noise, jute underlay or similar under the cab carper will help with warmth and soundproofing.

I suspect exterior noise may still transmit, foam is normally good acoustically (and wool) so maybe some closed cell foam, or wool. I think Kinsgspan is closed cell?

Though i may well take it out and redo the side panels in fresh wood, and strip out the loft insulation, and replace with felted sheeps wool, which if wet will dry out, and i can get a large 5kg bag for a tenner.

Have a look at my thread for ideas.

Cheers,

Alistair

 

[magoo]

Interesting stuff but it sounds like your expecting a 40 year old van to sound like a new car!

I'm doing it more for insulation than sound deadening and if it does kill some noise (which I personally think it will, engine for sure at least) then it's an added bonus.

I have a bare rolling shell at the moment so I'd rather do it and regret it later than not do it at all :lol: £200 is a drop in the ocean compared to what this vans going to cost.

Heat insulation will have little effect; heat will always find the coldest exit point in your house, so those nice big bay windows in your bus are your exit points.

Sound deadening, sound insulation, heat insulation require different products for each. There is no one product which will cover all three.

Generally, we are looking at three types of products for a proper job. I may as well recap for the next person who comes along asking about the same topic.

Sound deadening: CLD (Constrained Layer Dampening) - Dynamat/ Silent Coat 2mm/ 4mm etc

Adds mass to reduce the resonance of metal panels. CLD stop your panels from vibrating and creating noise at normal human hearing ranges. Tests show that you only need to cover 25% of your panel to stop the vibration. You don't need to spend crazy money on a fancy brand name. Simply adding heavy weight to the panels will do the same job, don't let the heavy marketing fool you. Sound deadening speak is the car equivalent to all that crap talked about £500 audio cables for your hi-fi. :roll:

Decoupling: CCF - Closed Cell Foam - 3M Thinsulate Acoustic/ Silent Coat sound absorber/ camping mats etc.
This acts as a decoupler to stop vibration being transmitted and reduces road noise on floors.

Mass Loaded Vinyl: MLV
Absorbs sound waves, prevents exterior noise. Not widely available and not often used by the car audio crowd. Adds serious weight to your bus.

CLD plus CCF on top is the way to go from what I've read.

Other points to note collected from various sources:

Butyl based products have a better temperature range than asphalt/ bitumen. Personally I would avoid bitumen in your bus unless you like your bus smelling of freshly laid tarmac in summer. Never put it on your roof! You will have no idea of the quality of the product until it melts.

Flashing tape isn't really heavy enough to use as a CLD, you need weight on those panels. Flashing tape is for roofs and will fail at high temperatures. Someone suggested that Fatmat is basically bitumen roofing tape, not sure if the material has changed recently. People used flashing tape before the days of fancy sound deadening products arrived on the market.

I'm leaning towards 2mm Silent Coat for the vertical panels and probably Thinsulate Acoustic for the CCF based on reviews and suitability.

 

[Supertramp]

This is far too technical for me, all I know is that when my bus is empty, I can't hear myself think, when I had it stuffed with camping gear/moving things it was much quieter. The loudest part of my bus is the engine, so I like to believe that covering the rear with soundproofing will help.
Either way, you can read too much and then never buy anything, so I'm pulling the trigger on noisekiller this week.

 

[magoo]

The Noisekiller kit sounds easier, but they have all different products for different parts of your bus. Cut a bit off this sheet to cover this bit blah blah. They don't go into much detail about what their products are made of and I got fed up/ exhausted reading about it last night, so these are my two choices if that helps.

http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-2mm-deadening-mat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.carinsulation.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=1286897&chainID=138978&txtQuickSearch=thinsulate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[aogrady]

Butyl based products have a better temperature range than asphalt/ bitumen. Personally I would avoid bitumen in your bus unless you like your bus smelling of freshly laid tarmac in summer. Never put it on your roof! You will have no idea of the quality of the product until it melts.

Flashing tape isn't really heavy enough to use as a CLD, you need weight on those panels. Flashing tape is for roofs and will fail at high temperatures. Someone suggested that Fatmat is basically bitumen roofing tape, not sure if the material has changed recently. People used flashing tape before the days of fancy sound deadening products arrived on the market.

Hi,

Valid points, but with all the extreme heat we had a few weeks back, the cavity wax leaked out of the engine lid, the flash tape stayed put in the tailgate. I used a heat gun to soften and to aid the stick, it really really is sticky, you wouldn't be able to remove it without some real hassle, I used 1 layers, and then a few patches on top, but less coverage, the panels certainly had a dull thud to them, compared to a metallic clang without. So yes, maybe not as thick as some of the other stuff you mention, but would it be really noticeable, especially as you say only a 25% coverage is all you need? I know i used too much, but, it was really cheap

There was a slight smell when applying, really don't recall much if anything after a few days if that? As for weight, a roll is pretty heavy, dont know how much, but fair.

If I had some spare, I'd send you a strip so you could have a compare - but the last few turns on the roll, well, I took apart the dishwasher and sound proofed the sides, front and lid, and did the bottom of the thin stainless steel sink in the kitchen (much improved!) :lol: Then i remembered what I was saving it for... :roll:

If I remember, I'll take a video of the clang v thud, as there is one outer panel you cant get to from the inside, so you can see flashing tape v nowt!

You pays your money, takes your choice. It does what I expected, happy with the results, didnt break the bank, It worked for me, might not for everyone. Sure, the expensive stuff may do it better, but it's a old vehicle, with little aerodynamics, lots of glass, lots of space, so the constraints are more than with a newer, quieter car, it's not gonna be used for any high end audio, just a daily familly driver - that's quieter than before!

Cheers,

Alistair

 

[ozziedog]

Magoo,, that was exactly what I said on a former post, about bitumin based and not putting it on the roof etc etc. Someone kindly put a link up to the Samba I believe , where they have been running it for a few years and there`s a bit of a long thread over a couple of years where people are gradually converting to it, but mainly as a panel deadner. The long and the short of it is that once installed there is no smell whatsoever and the melting temperature required to loosen it would be several trillion degrees (a little exageration maybe) :roll: But they is doing it and it is working and has been for quite a while,, contrary to my thoughts about smell and adhesion. Well worth a little look but I warn you it`s a long long thread. I absolutely agree with you about the rest though,, pretty much spot on.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :mrgreen:

 

[gninnam]

I installed the flashing in mine, must be 6 years ago (and on the roof) and all still there and does work very well at deadening the panels

 

[magoo]

Interesting feedback about flash tape use. I've read horror stories about flashing tape and my own experiences from bitumen when meter reading in a former life, is that the bitumen tape used on your old electricity meter eventually degrades and leaves a horrible mess. We were told to call it in to be replaced for whatever safety reasons, but it will fail.

I called into Wicks and B&Q this morning and the better of the flash tapes in stock, Flashband states that it lasts up to 15 years, so that's probably when it degrades which would compare to the electricity meter tape which was installed maybe 20+ years. But roads do melt during heatwaves and sag during the summer. Some people do recommend Flashband and some don't..cheers for the consensus :?

I doubt there is any difference between the performance of Silent Coat and Dynamat, Silent Coat is a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[cotswoldiver]

This debate will run and run. All I know is that compared with my first 1969 westy, the sheep's wool fitted in the side panels and roof area as insulation and silent coat into my '72 westy when we carried out the resto it has made a considerable difference to the pleasure/comfort of driving the bus especially on a longer journey. But I accept that with the amount of glass and the westy roof its an open invitation for easy escape.

I've no connection with them, but I found information from car audio direct was really helpful and their prices are pretty good. This is one of their starter sets - http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/silent-coat-starter-set.html

 

[aogrady]

Hi,

What would be interesting is how you would go about soundproofing the westy fibreglass roof? Maybe the flashing i use, and then spray adhesive with some of that thinner trimmers carpet? I suspect much more noise from my westy poptop than a tintop.....

Wondering if you could fit ply up there like the rest of the roof....

Alistair

 

[gninnam]

I know for the Dormy roof they used to sell insulation/sound absorbing material that you stick to it (I know as I have bought some but not fitted it yet).
Like a coarse woollen mat - about 2 thick.