Sound system dummy!!

[Welly]

Hi all, looking at putting a sensible sound system in the bus with an amp , 2 door speakers and 2 speakers for under the r&r bed, only trouble is I have no idea what I'm doing an neither does the guy I asked in halfords :roll: he just said "buy this one it cool".
I would like to know what I'm buying and why, don't understand any of it, watts, power output etc.
I understand that it's an opinion based thing but would like to know what to look for in a head unit and also understand the match up with speakers so I know that what I buy will match.
If this makes sense .

Any help would be appreciated.

Paul.

Ps, please feel free to treat me like an idiot, I pretty much am.

 

[rlepecha]

Firstly, I wouldn't buy from Halfords. Have a look on Car audio direct or car audio centre, usually cheaper for better quality equipment.

I fitted Pioneer 3-way speakers wired up to a cheap Chinese head unit (wanted the ability to play films via video out to a TV, typically that option is only on very expensive head units), 10" JBL Sub wired up to a FLI Loaded Amp.

I got all of it fairly cheap, there are better amps out there for subs but it only cost me about £50 and provides a significantly higher RMS than the alternatives at that price.

The whole lot cost me about £150.

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[Steve B]

Depends on what you want to spend, and if you want a matching system.

If just running 4 speakers, I wouldn't bother with an amp, as without serious work on enclosures etc, it would be wasted.

Decide on the basics first:
1)Do you want Bluetooth for streaming.
2)Do you you a front USB or rear USB input? Front is ideal for quick connections, but rear is neater and discreet.
3) DAB or not.
4) Modern looking or classic looking.
5) DVD playing capability.

From this, the main brands are Alpine, Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood. Or Blaupunkt and Retro Sounds for classic look. Look for something like 4x50 output or similar.

Speaker wise, go for 2 way up front (maybe 5"?) , and possibly 6x9s in rear. You can match the brand to the headunit if you wish. Maybe 150 watts front 200 watts rear.

All the above will give you decent sound system without too much fuss. I could go into more detail etc. But from your post, there's no point as it will only confuse you more (sorry just trying to make it a bit easier for you). There's lot of options out there, but unless you fully understand, you can blow money away.

As above poster says, plenty of on-line stores, who are usually also on eBay too.

 

[BRAD]

I agree with not going anywhere near halyards, go to an car audio shop they can talk you through it and fit it for you if you like

 

[Moseley]

Depends on what you want to spend, and if you want a matching system.

If just running 4 speakers, I wouldn't bother with an amp, as without serious work on enclosures etc, it would be wasted.

Decide on the basics first:
1)Do you want Bluetooth for streaming.
2)Do you you a front USB or rear USB input? Front is ideal for quick connections, but rear is neater and discreet.
3) DAB or not.
4) Modern looking or classic looking.
5) DVD playing capability.

From this, the main brands are Alpine, Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood. Or Blaupunkt and Retro Sounds for classic look. Look for something like 4x50 output or similar.

Speaker wise, go for 2 way up front (maybe 5"?) , and possibly 6x9s in rear. You can match the brand to the headunit if you wish. Maybe 150 watts front 200 watts rear.

All the above will give you decent sound system without too much fuss. I could go into more detail etc. But from your post, there's no point as it will only confuse you more (sorry just trying to make it a bit easier for you). There's lot of options out there, but unless you fully understand, you can blow money away.

As above poster says, plenty of on-line stores, who are usually also on eBay too.

I'm sorry but this is really misleading advice. When looking at any sound system, you want speakers matched to your amp's output. Putting in speakers with a couple of hundred watts, and a head unit with only 50 or so (these will be max power output, rather than RMS which is a better figure to look at for matching up the system) is going to be a waste of money on the new speakers. Adding an external amp into the mix will always give a far better sound from speakers than running off a head unit's internal amp. You won't need to design any special enclosures to benefit from this.

Paul, the bus already has a 4 channel amp and rear speakers, so realistically all you need is a head unit of choice and then run a second set of speaker cables to wherever you want to mount another pair of speakers. There is a second set of RCA leads already under the floor (for connection between head unit and amp) so that you could mount another amp under the bed and use it to run an external subwoofer if you so wished. I can't remember the model of amp, but if you can find out, there's plenty of speaker choices available that won't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[SiDev]

It all depends on budget, but car audio is so cheap compared to what it used to be that I would suggest the below to have a fairy decent sound:
As a bare minimum:
A decent head unit with 4x50 watt output and a remote output (to run an amp). Budget about £80 for a decent Pioneer or Sony unit.
2 door speakers: go for 13cm jobs, these will look right and give a decent bit of bass. Budget £30 and again look for Pioneer or Sony
2 rear speakers: go for a decent set of 6x9's and mount them
I'm the overhead locker or underneath the rock and roll bed

Then if you have a few more bucks:
For vastly improved mid-range and bass, and to stop it all distorting once you turn it up on the motorway:
An 800 watt MOSFET amp, the internals are mostly generic so any make will do. Budget around £70
A 12" sub-woofer either mounted in a purpose-built enclosure or under the rear rock and roll bed. Look for Rockford Fosgate, Jensen Nitro, and budget around £120
An amp wiring kit, which includes everything you need to get an amp and sub wired in. Budget around £30.

It really is very simple to hook it all up, just takes a bit of planning, if your budget stretches to an amp and sub it's well-worth it: there's a lot of space in a bus and they aren't the most acoustic of motors.

 

[Myvanway]

Alpine head units for me (Quality/Function and power), 4 x 50 w Plenty powerful enough for running 6x9 speakers and some components at the front with crossovers.
300watt + Amp running a 10inch sub is plenty.
Perfect for a moderate set up....Imo!

I just have an Alpine amp 300 watt running sub and components with no head unit just off my phone and it kicks ass!!! 8)
I will be going for the above at some point.

Think about what you are after? Do you run iPhone/android? download or buy Cd's?
You can go crazy, as I have in the past and getting component head units with just pre outs and no internal power and run loads of amps and whatever.....

Might be why I have tinnitus and am a little hard of hearing!!!!


The main thing is are you ever going to hold a rave in it??!! Bet it never goes up half way before the missus moans to turn it down!! (Me that is!) :lol:

Alpine CDE-185BT (Bluetooth and Parrot handsfree, new models are now Android friendly as well as iPhone) 8)

 

[PSG]

The reason to get a higher wattage of speaker to the amp or head unit output, is so that even at max volume, you dont get distortion. It is quote common to get a higher wattage than the max output of the amp etc. and well advised.

 

[Steve B]

Depends on what you want to spend, and if you want a matching system.

If just running 4 speakers, I wouldn't bother with an amp, as without serious work on enclosures etc, it would be wasted.

Decide on the basics first:
1)Do you want Bluetooth for streaming.
2)Do you you a front USB or rear USB input? Front is ideal for quick connections, but rear is neater and discreet.
3) DAB or not.
4) Modern looking or classic looking.
5) DVD playing capability.

From this, the main brands are Alpine, Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood. Or Blaupunkt and Retro Sounds for classic look. Look for something like 4x50 output or similar.

Speaker wise, go for 2 way up front (maybe 5"?) , and possibly 6x9s in rear. You can match the brand to the headunit if you wish. Maybe 150 watts front 200 watts rear.

All the above will give you decent sound system without too much fuss. I could go into more detail etc. But from your post, there's no point as it will only confuse you more (sorry just trying to make it a bit easier for you). There's lot of options out there, but unless you fully understand, you can blow money away.

As above poster says, plenty of on-line stores, who are usually also on eBay too.

I'm sorry but this is really misleading advice. When looking at any sound system, you want speakers matched to your amp's output. Putting in speakers with a couple of hundred watts, and a head unit with only 50 or so (these will be max power output, rather than RMS which is a better figure to look at for matching up the system) is going to be a waste of money on the new speakers. Adding an external amp into the mix will always give a far better sound from speakers than running off a head unit's internal amp. You won't need to design any special enclosures to benefit from this.

Paul, the bus already has a 4 channel amp and rear speakers, so realistically all you need is a head unit of choice and then run a second set of speaker cables to wherever you want to mount another pair of speakers. There is a second set of RCA leads already under the floor (for connection between head unit and amp) so that you could mount another amp under the bed and use it to run an external subwoofer if you so wished. I can't remember the model of amp, but if you can find out, there's plenty of speaker choices available that won't cost an arm and a leg.

Basic and straight forward advice was asked for and given. A decent Alpine headunit and Alpine speakers will sound fine (or similar brand).

Whilst I don't disagree about RMS, that's just adding more information into the pot. An amp powering 2 speakers up front, and 2 speakers at the back, is not a basic installation. You then go into the realms of cable sizes, routes and fuses. If the bus already has an amp, then fair enough - but this is not what was said.

With the fronts, you'd be better saving the cash from fitting an amp, and fit sound deadening to the doors if door mounted speakers, and ensuring the underseat enclosure was solid and decent in the back. Whilst it won't sound as good as a new high-end car setup, it will improve it slightly.

Like I say, simple advice was asked for and therefore given. I said I could go into more detail, but that can only overload people.

 

[Welly]

Wow, it really is personal opinion. Thanks all for your replies.

Sorry it probably would of made sense to mention what the van already has installed to help you guys advise where to go with it but thought if I could get my head around how it all works it might help me make a decision to improve on what I had or totally replace.

There is an amp already fitted under the r&r bed, just had a look and like Moseley says, it's an Alpine 4 channel power amp MRP-F242 max power 360W

The only speakers that are in the van are ( I believe ) JBL CS-5C 40W continuos and 120W peak with tweeters.

As far as knowing how to move forward, I store my music on SD cards so would ideally like a head unit that would accept these, also find that the previous head unit CD player would jump everytime we went over a pebble so more interested in SD than CD.

If what is already there in the rear is good enough then it looks like I'm looking for a head unit and front door speakers.

I still don't understand what RMS is and also what does 4 x 50 mean with the head unit?

Like I said, it's all new to me this.

 

[Myvanway]

Each one of the 4 speaker outputs provide 50w of power. (4 x 50w)

 

[Steve B]

Each one of the 4 speaker outputs provide 50w of power. (4 x 50w)

Yeah, exactly this. Connect 4 speakers, and it will give 50w power to each. So total output is 200w. Some headunits (not all) will change the power according to speakers connected. So if just 2 connected, it will power them both at 100w (200w altogether still).

I'd power the rears off the amp, and connect front 2 direct to headunit. Sound quality from the fronts will never be great without a bit more work, so no point off the amp.

SD card readers are not popular in head units - so either swap to USB stick (easy done) or use a USB SD adapter. You can use a front USB for ease, or a rear USB with a long lead for discreet connection.

What's your budget? That will dictate really.

I'm an Alpine fan, but have had Sony in the past too, and they were good. Your amp will be decent.

 

[Welly]

Each one of the 4 speaker outputs provide 50w of power. (4 x 50w)

Yeah, exactly this. Connect 4 speakers, and it will give 50w power to each.

What's your budget? That will dictate really.

I'm an Alpine fan, but have had Sony in the past too, and they were good. Your amp will be decent.

I have a budget of £200 really for both head unit and front speakers.

Without sounding tooooo daft, if the head unit powers 50W to each speaker, I guess there would be no point buying speakers with more than 50W would there?

 

[Steve B]

Each one of the 4 speaker outputs provide 50w of power. (4 x 50w)

Yeah, exactly this. Connect 4 speakers, and it will give 50w power to each.

What's your budget? That will dictate really.

I'm an Alpine fan, but have had Sony in the past too, and they were good. Your amp will be decent.

I have a budget of £200 really for both head unit and front speakers.

Without sounding tooooo daft, if the head unit powers 50W to each speaker, I guess there would be no point buying speakers with more than 50W would there?

Well, if you're keeping the van, then a decent headunit, new, will be between £120-£180 (more if you want!) Speakers maybe £40>£70.

In simple form, for 50w output, speakers around 120w + will b fine. Although as mentioned above, you can check RMS level. When buying online, RMS specs are always supplied on the details for the product.

To learn more about RMS, just Google 'headunit RMS guide'. Plenty of threads with similar questions to yours.

 

[Moseley]

RMS power is more akin to normal listening volumes without distortion, whereas peak power is what the name suggests - and wouldn't be sustainable without damaging something. Most head units will be rated at around 50w per channel (speaker) max power, which will give an RMS somewhere around 15w. Using the current JBL speakers fitted in the rear of the van, these have a RMS of 40w, and although they would in no way be considered as high power speakers, you can see from the figures that a head unit would struggle to drive them to their potential. In audio terms, you would generally pick a higher output amp than the speakers it is driving, so that you can get the most out of the speakers themselves. All amps I've ever come across have adjustable settings which allow you to set up the system at max volume, but effectively de-tune the amp to avoid speaker damage if you ever felt the need to crank the head unit up to max. The type of music you listen to will also play a part in this, as something like dance music is very bass heavy and will have a generally high current draw from the amp.

Another way to put it - imagine that you have a 50w RMS amp and two different speakers wired to it; one is rated at 50w RMS, the other at 100w ( assume everything else about the speakers is identical). Although the 100w speaker costs more, the amp cannot provide enough power to drive it's larger magnet, and you would actually get better sound quality at a given volume from the smaller speaker.

Anyway, just my tuppence worth - I wouldn't bother driving any speakers from a head unit, especially as you have a capable amp in place with all the wiring.

 

[Davydomes]

Don't forget the Ohm rating - Amps can be 4 Ohm only (though many do both 4 Ohm & 2 Ohm if enough channels available). The speakers need also be 4 Ohm or 2 Ohm if limited by the Amp. Some 4 ohm amps are not 2 Ohm stable but those that are will have no problem driving a 2 Ohm speaker.

 

[Welly]

RMS power is more akin to normal listening volumes without distortion, whereas peak power is what the name suggests - and wouldn't be sustainable without damaging something. Most head units will be rated at around 50w per channel (speaker) max power, which will give an RMS somewhere around 15w. Using the current JBL speakers fitted in the rear of the van, these have a RMS of 40w, and although they would in no way be considered as high power speakers, you can see from the figures that a head unit would struggle to drive them to their potential. In audio terms, you would generally pick a higher output amp than the speakers it is driving, so that you can get the most out of the speakers themselves. All amps I've ever come across have adjustable settings which allow you to set up the system at max volume, but effectively de-tune the amp to avoid speaker damage if you ever felt the need to crank the head unit up to max. The type of music you listen to will also play a part in this, as something like dance music is very bass heavy and will have a generally high current draw from the amp.

Another way to put it - imagine that you have a 50w RMS amp and two different speakers wired to it; one is rated at 50w RMS, the other at 100w ( assume everything else about the speakers is identical). Although the 100w speaker costs more, the amp cannot provide enough power to drive it's larger magnet, and you would actually get better sound quality at a given volume from the smaller speaker.

Anyway, just my tuppence worth - I wouldn't bother driving any speakers from a head unit, especially as you have a capable amp in place with all the wiring.

Makes sense now.

I think it's a case of finding a head unit I want that has a USB option and get some speakers for the door cards.
Wouldn't bother but when we turn the music up so we can hear it in the from whilst driving the kids shout that it's too load in the back, oh and your "pink" cd skips when you drive. :lol: :lol:

 

[rlepecha]

RMS power is more akin to normal listening volumes without distortion, whereas peak power is what the name suggests - and wouldn't be sustainable without damaging something. Most head units will be rated at around 50w per channel (speaker) max power, which will give an RMS somewhere around 15w. Using the current JBL speakers fitted in the rear of the van, these have a RMS of 40w, and although they would in no way be considered as high power speakers, you can see from the figures that a head unit would struggle to drive them to their potential. In audio terms, you would generally pick a higher output amp than the speakers it is driving, so that you can get the most out of the speakers themselves. All amps I've ever come across have adjustable settings which allow you to set up the system at max volume, but effectively de-tune the amp to avoid speaker damage if you ever felt the need to crank the head unit up to max. The type of music you listen to will also play a part in this, as something like dance music is very bass heavy and will have a generally high current draw from the amp.

Another way to put it - imagine that you have a 50w RMS amp and two different speakers wired to it; one is rated at 50w RMS, the other at 100w ( assume everything else about the speakers is identical). Although the 100w speaker costs more, the amp cannot provide enough power to drive it's larger magnet, and you would actually get better sound quality at a given volume from the smaller speaker.

Anyway, just my tuppence worth - I wouldn't bother driving any speakers from a head unit, especially as you have a capable amp in place with all the wiring.

Makes sense now.

I think it's a case of finding a head unit I want that has a USB option and get some speakers for the door cards.
Wouldn't bother but when we turn the music up so we can hear it in the from whilst driving the kids shout that it's too load in the back, oh and your "pink" cd skips when you drive. :lol: :lol:

if you going to power the speakers by the amp in the back then you may as well get a component set up. Although these may take some more thought to mount, the sound will be significantly better than mounting a single coaxial low down in each door.
I've just swapped my Pioneer ts-g1723I 3 way coaxials for Pioneer TS-A173ci components, which although having an RMS of 60w I am still driving from a 12-13w RMS head unit and it sounds great whilst still being suitably loud for my liking.

One other note to consider; given the long length of speaker cable you will need to connect the amp to the front speakers, I would recommend you purchase some cable that is OFC and 80+ strand to ensure that losses in the cable are kept to a minimum.

Regardless of how much you spend on a car audio system, there is no way to get perfect sound reproduction in a vehicle; there are too many things in the way which block or reflect the waves.



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