TOWING A BAY

[john982]

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF YOU CAN TOW A BAY VAN WITH A A-FRAME ?

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

Yep, saw a guy A frame a bus the other day when I was at the docks.

 

[slammedresto]

Its not strictly legal im told, but yes you can

we towed my old bus back from the docks

 

[TinTopaway]

Hi,

I use a 2.5 ton A-Frame to tow campers all over the UK!

Ian

http://www.Brightonbaysandsplits.com

 

[Graham L]

Not being funny but I think you will find its illegal to use an A frame if the weight of the vehicle being towed is over 750kg unless you have a linked braked system from the towing vehicle to the towed system like you would on a trailer. Max towed weight unbraked is 750kg.

Lots of the motorhomes you see on the motorway towing small cars behind them are breaking the law and in certain parts of the country police have been clamping down on this. (linked brake systems are available for lots of small cars)

Sorry if I'm the bearer of bad news but I would hate anyone to get done and get points on their licence,

 

[angus]

I think Graham is right - most a-frames are labled 'emergency use only' or similar -so 'disable' the van first :wink: and then you are 'recueing it'.... 8)
Interested about the linked braking though graham - its a topic that has come up on Blatchat a few times - I really want to tow the caterham behind the van in this way - car is well below that 750kg limit, but apparently its still an issue... :evil:

 

[Graham L]

Angus

I'm sure if you are under 750kg you are alright as trailers below that weight don't need brakes ,

Hows the van coming on :?:

 

[angus]

Getting there mate! Almost ready for engine back in, then MOT to see what needs doing....may go to Cool Air later to get some bits - looks like almost next street to Caterham Dartford!

 

[TinTopaway]

Hi Guys,

I'm completey stunned!!

I posted the comment " i have been using an A-Frame to tow for years" and was shocked at your responces!

I had no idea this was illegal!!

I have towed over 20 busses this way from port to door and so on and never had any problems or been stopped,i must have been lucky! The law needs to be a LOT clearer on towing veicles. The warnings on my A-Frame are: Do not tow veicle over 2 tons,do not exceed 50mph,for emergency use only.

I do have a twin axle trailer but i find it dangeours as it "snakes" in the motor way ruts caused by the large lorrys.

I will look into this further as it is a real grey area.

Thanks for your comments,

Ian

 

[TinTopaway]

Update:

Acording to the road traffic act 15 & 16 under the new legislation you are able to use a A - Frame or
Tow Dolly if the veicle is "Broken Down" the 750kg wight law is to do with GrossTrailer weights. You can use an A-Frame or towing device as long as the veicle is broken down...............simple! Loosen one the coil wire's and hey prestow!

Ian

 

[TinTopaway]

Update:

For "A-Frames" you can buy an adapter for a braking kit!

These are £165 and aid assit braking making using an A-Frame totally legal to do..

Ian

 

[angus]

Hi Ian - sorry we shocked you!! :shock: I think Graham and I only know because we had asked similar questions about towing Caterhams previously. Its a PITA because towing such a light vehicle with an a-frame makes such perfect sense - some of the trailers to pull even a small car such as a caterham are so heavy in themselves....

Thanks for the aditional research re: brake assist. I'll certainly be looking into it, so I can tow the 7 with the van (when it has a tad more power!! - towing a 200bhp car with 40bhp doesn't seem right!) - where did you see these for sale?

I suspect in the real world, getting done would depend entirely on if a) you were spotted and b) if the copper stopping you was 100% in knowledge of the rules and regs. ISTR hearing that many were wise to the 'missing coil lead/rotor' trick :wink:

 

[angus]

Just to add - I don't know how that brake assist is linked to the 'tow car' braking system, but that looks potentially lethal!! The thought of a car one was towing suddenly locking up its front wheels as you gently apply the brakes because it isn't adjusted properly....still, might help the vans drum brakes work better!!

 

[TinTopaway]

Hi,

You have it in one....

I have spoken to a lot of people today as i use the A-Frame for my buisness http://www.Brightonbaysandsplits.com and didn't want to get in any bother and the chances of getting done are very slim!!

A 200bhp 7 under 750kg = FAST AS FOOK>>>>>

I've got a Renault Spider at 173 bhp and that's 780kg and that's not slow to say the least!!

Ian

 

[TinTopaway]

p.s the web site for all the towing parts is:

http://www.aframes.co.uk/

I have one of there 2.5ton A Frames and it's perfect..

Ian

 

[angus]

Cheers Ian!

8)

 

[Graham L]

Hi Ian

Same as Angus I didn't mean to shock you but I have heard of somone who was towing a small car behind a motor home and was done because it was over 750kg and had no braking effort, I found this piece on a motorhome site that clearly states the difference and the speeds you can travel at whilst 'recovering a vehicle', also note the bit about disconnecting things is not a breakdown.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I don't want anyone to get stopped:

'A' frames and Dollies
Q. What is a trailer?
A. A road vehicle, usually (but not necessarily) two wheeled, towed by a motor vehicle.Given the above dictionary definition, it is fairly clear that anything attached to the towball and having wheels in contact with the ground is a trailer. This includes cars on ‘A’ frames and dollies. Bearing in mind that the unbraked towing limit of 750 kgs refers to Maximum Gross Weight (i.e. the figure on the towed cars VIN plate) and not to actual weight, it severely restricts the options. The only cars I know of with a MGW of less than 750 kgs is the Aixam range. These are around 450 to 550 kgs.

There are strict regulations on braked trailers and, whilst a braked ‘A’ frame attached to a towed car constitutes a braked trailer, it is not legal for transportation as it cannot comply with EC71/320. With car dollies, the situation is somewhat different. Under regulation 83 of the Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (SI.1986/1078) Amending Regulations, a car dolly, with a car in place, will be considered as two trailers. This is legal for recovery but, under the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (Schedule 6) the combination is limited to 40 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 20 mph elsewhere.

Note that there is a very specific difference between recovery and transportation. Recovery is the removal of a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. It does not include removing a rotor arm (for instance) and travelling the length and breadth of the country. The police are well aware of the difference due to the regulations covering Tachographs and Operators Licences. Recovery vehicles are exempt.

It is well known that some countries in the EEC tend to overlook the regulations (the UK included) but some countries don’t. The situation regarding enforcement could change at any time and, as a result, the only safe way to transport another vehicle behind a motorhome is on a car transporter trailer. Play safe! Don’t take the risk!

PS: Don't shhot the messenger :mrgreen: