Unwelded dropped spindles - TransporterHaus & T2D pics& q's

[dubdubz]

pics please :lol:

Thanks Alex - product is very good and I'm happy [ I didn't want this thread to be seen negatively :roll: ]

it was as there was a few 'not quite sure's' in my head I wanted to SEE others installations to satisfy myself that my solution was a generic common one....

:roll: you know when you wish you hadn't started a thread...............

 

[TransporterHaus]

pics please :lol:

Thanks Alex - product is very good and I'm happy [ I didn't want this thread to be seen negatively :roll: ]

it was as there was a few 'not quite sure's' in my head I wanted to SEE others installations to satisfy myself that my solution was a generic common one....

:roll: you know when you wish you hadn't started a thread...............

We have had some very good feedback, and there is over 50 sets running out there.

It's good to get any concerns out in the open. Both Paul @ t2d and I know there has been questions about fitting ball joints up side down so if we get the facts out there i'm sure people can make an informed decision as to how to lower their bay and know the products are safe.

Now whos going to test their welded spindles to destruction? :lol:

 

[Frisco69]

Since there has been some concern raised here about the strength properties of the high tensile nuts we use, we will build a jig and test the nut on a ball joint to destruction. Bear with us on this, we have a lot of work in at the moment.

Now that is a good offer -hopefully this answers the questions raised but others (not the OP). All I can say is thanks to whoever put Transporterhaus onto this as this thread....

That were me (the one that started the hi-jack of this thread). Thought it only fair to give Alex an opportunity to explain how the set up works. Its great that he's going to do some further testing as I'm very keen on these!

Right, back to the install side of things I guess

 

[Clem]

Darren
Are these pics any good?

 

[dubdubz]

they certainly are Clem - any closer pics of the joints so I can compare....there is much more clearance on drums I notice!

 

[TransporterHaus]

Another late night at the shop. Now home and time for a beer.

ok we tested the nuts tonight.

New nut onto ball joint piece trimmed down for the press. Firstly screwed on the usual way with 2 threads spare should the nut decide to fail.

15 Metric Tons of pressure. Did not move at all.

Removed nut and replaced the other way around simulating pressure from a reverse ball joint fitting to a spindle.

Upto 18 :shock: Metric Tons of pressure. Still no movement or damage at all. We stopped here. If that had of spat out of the press it would have been like a bullet flying around the shop.

Removed the Nut. Inspection on the vice. Absolutely no damage to any threads

We could not destroy the nut and despite 18 tons on it, it is still as good as when it was fitted. We are very confident these nuts will not fail fitted to the bus.

Transporterhaus, t2d and knk all use the same ball joints and nuts.

A final note regarding ball joints fitted "the wrong way up" onto spindles. On the T25 the bottom ball joint is facing upwards from factory. This bottom ball joint on a T25 is the same as a T2 except for its lateral movement - the T2 being restricted in its joint movement. I feel this shows from factory that VW were satisfied these ball joints work either up or down facing.

 

[TransporterHaus]

Some time ago we tested our locking ball joint solution on an oversized trailing arm. VW did offer over sized ball joints and trailing arms back in the day - over sized being 0.5mm larger than standard.

Now all ball joints available with the exception of Meyle are standard size. All Meyle ball joints are 0.5mm oversized, this is one of the reasons they call their ball joints HD :shock: and is also the reason their ball joints are harder to press into a standard trailing arm.

We fitted one of our standard size locking ball joints into an over sized trailing arm. The ball joint should not friction fit because it is 0.5mm too small for the trailing arm and unsurprisingly after pressing the ball joint in it was possible to spin the ball joint with your fingers but you could not pull it out because of the ring we employ in the trailing arm.

It took 15 tons on the press to destroy our locking ring and push the ball joint out. Here are some pics of the result.

Transporterhaus locking ring after 15 tons.

Destructed ring and drop spindle ball joint

TransporterHaus test every single trailing arm we manufacture with our locking ball joints. In multiple tests it takes 15 tons to break our locking mechanism.

Good night!

 

[TransporterHaus]

they certainly are Clem - any closer pics of the joints so I can compare....there is much more clearance on drums I notice!

Both TransporterHaus and t2d use the same ball joints. The difference is the Transporterhaus securing ring is fitted to the centre of the trailing arm and t2d / knk ball joints securing ring is on the top.

Both solutions were developed indepedantly of each other without seeing each others product hence the difference in solutions, but they both do the same thing.

There is a LOT more clearance on the 68-70 spindles.

 

[Freezzr]

Thanks for those great pics and explanation Alex!

I have to take my spindles of for a second time because they don't turn in the urethane bushes in my beam (to be clear, this is NOT a spindle issue, it's the crappy beam I think...)

What do you think of installing those big locknuts for a third time? Should I use new ones?

 

[Frisco69]

Thanks Alex for working late and testing these. That is just amazing really 18 tonnes :shock: and still as good as new. No one can argue with that extensive testing with those photos to prove it. Well I'm convinced!!!!

 

[Frisco69]

After that testing by Alex I have now bought a set of these .

 

[Clem]

Good work Alex! Thanks for doing that and posting the pics.

 

[dubdubz]

Both TransporterHaus and t2d use the same ball joints. The difference is the Transporterhaus securing ring is fitted to the centre of the trailing arm and t2d / knk ball joints securing ring is on the top.

Both solutions were developed indepently of each other without seeing each others product hence the difference in solutions, but they both do the same thing.

There is a LOT more clearance on the 68-70 spindles.

Top man Alex, thanks for the tests as Clem says - and it's good that it's in here with the other pics too.

If I'd have actually thought :roll: we have around 10kg left in baggage allowance I could have taken a pr or 3?? to Bug O rama 65 to sell for you, it's the shipping that kills UK to US. The dollar is strong against the pound right now

oh well the thought was there albeit late :roll: :lol:

 

[Graham L]

Alex

Thanks for doing this, had no doubts but this has confirmed it for other people, well done that man.

As an aside we were just talking about this in the office and its impossible that you would ever get this level of load on the nut anyway as the trailing arms and the torsion bars are still acting in their normal way so any direct force being applied would be dissipated throughout the whole of the suspension set up and not just the nut thats on the balljoint (hope that makes sense)

 

[Clem]

As an aside we were just talking about this in the office and its impossible that you would ever get this level of load on the nut anyway as the trailing arms and the torsion bars are still acting in their normal way so any direct force being applied would be dissipated throughout the whole of the suspension set up and not just the nut thats on the balljoint (hope that makes sense)

Youre right, its what I was reffering to when I spoke about the sprung weight of a bus' load vs. the unsprung weight excerted in the bench press. You'd have to re enact the 'jumping bay' video to get anywhere near close! :lol:

 

[froggy]

As an aside we were just talking about this in the office and its impossible that you would ever get this level of load on the nut anyway as the trailing arms and the torsion bars are still acting in their normal way so any direct force being applied would be dissipated throughout the whole of the suspension set up and not just the nut thats on the balljoint (hope that makes sense)

Youre right, its what I was reffering to when I spoke about the sprung weight of a bus' load vs. the unsprung weight excerted in the bench press. You'd have to re enact the 'jumping bay' video to get anywhere near close! :lol:

Is that an offer :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Dave105]

I have a set of Transporterhause spindles but not yet fitted them. They arrived without any fitting instructions, which I think is a bit of a shame as these things don’t appear to be a straight swap for the old set up. The only place I have managed to find useful info is from this thread. I am not concerned about the pros and cons as, like the previous guy, I have already made my choice. What I find helpful is the ‘how to fit them’ bits.
So it looks like there are a couple of main issues:
1) The cutting of the back plate (I’ve got a ’72 )
2) The placement of the brake line bracket. I was interested in the guy who replaced his fixed line with flexi from a Beetle, anyone done this as well?
3) Setting the camber: do you just point the lug towards the front of the van? I assume that it wants to be ‘stock’ camber?
4) Any problems with the two adjustable track rods?
I’m removing a Red9 Design set up so I will be replacing the torsion leaves as well. I will be giving it a go on the May bank holiday weekend so will try and take a few pics and post when I do as I think the biggest disappoint yet has been the lack of information on how to fit these things so any more info before the event would be most welcome.
Cheers

 

[Freezzr]

I think T2d spindles also won't come with a fitting instruction. It was in fact pretty easy to install, get everything loose, your old spindles off, trailing arms out and put the new Transporterhaus arms back in, then mount the new spindles. Build over the existing brake discs/drums and with the backing plate cut out a bit. Cambernut had to be set a bit outward to set camber and clear the trailing arm from the disc (in my case)

When I put the bus down the OG brakelines were far too short. I did mount the old brakelineholder to the top nut but that didn't work out well, the brakelines where too short and also did the nut came loose very easy with the brakelineholder on top ( :shock: ) I changed the hard brakeline from the caliper to the hard brakeline on the chassis with a Beetle brakeline. Fits great and the clearance while steering is ok.

 

[Graham L]

I found it easier to attach the spindle to the top trailing arm first and then using a trolley jack, jack the spindle up and then get the bottom arm in but I'm sure other people have done it differently, don't forget the arms are under tension so a second pair of hands to get everything lined up helps :mrgreen:

 

[Clem]

4) Any problems with the two adjustable track rods?

Make sure you get them pretty much 'even'. It didnt cross my mind and now Ive got a superb turning circle one way, and a rubbish one the other. Its schoolboy error on my part and annoying to fix now the tracking has been set right.