Unwelded dropped spindles - TransporterHaus & T2D pics& q's

[Graham L]

What do guys think about the nut on the threaded part of the balljoint? With the joints being upside down the spindle is pushing up against it all the time.
My concern is that the threads may pull under load allowing the tapered part of the joint to come away. With the balljoint now upside down the trailing arm is pushing downward and the spindle is pushing up.

As a stockist of the transporterhaus product (which is the same as the T2D product) I wouldn't sell them unless I was happy with the design, the new balljoints are locked into place when fitted and cannot come out of the arm as you suggest they might.

Picture of the ones going on my shop bus

 

[Frisco69]

What do guys think about the nut on the threaded part of the balljoint? With the joints being upside down the spindle is pushing up against it all the time.
My concern is that the threads may pull under load allowing the tapered part of the joint to come away. With the balljoint now upside down the trailing arm is pushing downward and the spindle is pushing up.

As a stockist of the transporterhaus product (which is the same as the T2D product) I wouldn't sell them unless I was happy with the design, the new balljoints are locked into place when fitted and cannot come out of the arm as you suggest they might.

Picture of the ones going on my shop bus

Hi Graham,

I'm not suggesting that the balljoint may come out of the arm. I've read the info on the Transporterhaus website and understand how it works and I'm confident the lockout ring is up to the job.
It's just the nuts on the top of the balljoints. The spindle is pushing up against these all the time so it is only the threads and the tight fit on the tapered parts holding it together.
Now that the assembly is upside down the tapered parts are no longer being pushed tighter together. The forces applied are doing the opposite.
I just wonder how much force/shock would be required to seperate these 2 parts.

I'm an ex-mechanic so I know these components are incredibly strong but are they strong enough? And have they been tested to failure to find out?

Chances are you could put this lot together and launch the van into the air General Lee style (not that anyone would of course) and they still wont fail on impact but I'd like to know for sure that more than the usual forces can be applied to them before failure.

I've seen evidence of testing on the balljoints and trailing arms but not on the balljoint/nut and spindle!

Hope that makes sense. I'm not dissing the product at all as I would love to buy these and if I can be convinced that they wont fail than I'll recommend them to anyone!!

 

[dubdubz]

What do guys think about the nut on the threaded part of the balljoint? With the joints being upside down the spindle is pushing up against it all the time.
My concern is that the threads may pull under load allowing the tapered part of the joint to come away. With the balljoint now upside down the trailing arm is pushing downward and the spindle is pushing up.

I've emailed Alex and he says that he is confident that the two parts will not seperate.
I would really like to buy these to replace my 2 1/2" spindles but need 100% confidence in them first.

I have TransporterHaus ones and I am very happy with them, being one of the 1st disk kits 'we' weren't sure about the backing plate, but from this thread it is clear that the route I took is the common one.

I'm not sure the insurance thing is valid tbh, as I'm sure there'll be a clause somewhere, but that withstanding the other comments are totally valid.What we have is an evolution of safe ways of lowering a bus and we should be thankful.
The old days were removing torsion leaves and other dangerous methods.

Once my bus is dialled in - tracking set and I'm happy with ride and height, I intend to use decent threadlock in addition to New nyloc nuts, I'm not sure of the shear and mechanical physics, but I'm guessing for the balljoint nut to strip the threads clean off and seperate is almost impossible in the position it's in. Also for say both joints to fail in such a catastrophic way at exactly the same moment is very unlikely - you'd have more chance of winning the lottery!

Plus those other 'pioneers' of unwelded dropped spindles - stop the chat and get posting of the pictures! :mrgreen:

And to be honest running these spindles seems safer to me than maxing the balljoints travel as I was before.....


more pics please

 

[Freezzr]

How much pressure would you need to push a bolt of that size completely off of its thread?? that's the last thing I'm worried about...

 

[Frisco69]

How much pressure would you need to push a bolt of that size completely off of its thread?? that's the last thing I'm worried about...

That's what I'd like to know!!!! And it's a nut not a bolt!!!

In this case it would be the first thing I'm worried about. I've had high tensile suspension components fail on me in the past and it was the threads that gave out. Luckily this happened to me at a very low speed and just before I got on to the motorway.

If just one of these nuts fail that is the whole wheel assembly collapsing into the wheel arch. At speed that could be deadly. I think it is only right that we know that these parts have been tested. You can't just assume it will be fine because it's a large nut!!!

 

[dubdubz]

I think if you're not having the leap of faith then leave it.......

I mean I bought a BMW that cost new 31K [ I paid significantly less for it! ] but I have to assume that BMW tested their nuts on suspension components - I am never ever going to ask or ever see the test results. I suppose there may be a missing link where a governing body has seen these tests....

but stuff breaks - the only thing else I can suggest is reconfiguring the bumpstops [ something I am seriously looking at right now ] so in the event of a failure and that includes the torsion leaves breaking...I have at least got a dumped-onto-a-stop-suspension as opposed to a-rubbing-on-the-wheel-tub and trying to stop

I do understand your concerns - I think we may need to address the bump stop side of it to help in any failure as opposed to just the nut/balljoint thread.........

 

[Clem]

Paul @ T2D told me they had these kits tested to 5 tonnes of pressure/weight, and thats unsprung, as opposed to the force that a 1.5(?) tonne van can make.

 

[Freezzr]

How much pressure would you need to push a bolt of that size completely off of its thread?? that's the last thing I'm worried about...

And it's a nut not a bolt!!!

You can't just assume it will be fine because it's a large nut!!!

Sorry I'm from Holland, choosing English words is not as natural as you do

About the bolt, eh, nut , if you want more information about the strengths it could handle you should contact T2d or Transporterhaus because they should have tested that.

I'm affraid this question can be put together with the questions according the strenght of the welded typ of dropped spindles.... you'll probably never know but to find out when they break...

 

[dubdubz]

Sorry I'm from Holland, choosing English words is not as natural as you do

you should perhaps update your profile to show location

 

[Frisco69]

I think if you're not having the leap of faith then leave it.......

I mean I bought a BMW that cost new 31K [ I paid significantly less for it! ] but I have to assume that BMW tested their nuts on suspension components - I am never ever going to ask or ever see the test results. I suppose there may be a missing link where a governing body has seen these tests....

but stuff breaks - the only thing else I can suggest is reconfiguring the bumpstops [ something I am seriously looking at right now ] so in the event of a failure and that includes the torsion leaves breaking...I have at least got a dumped-onto-a-stop-suspension as opposed to a-rubbing-on-the-wheel-tub and trying to stop

I do understand your concerns - I think we may need to address the bump stop side of it to help in any failure as opposed to just the nut/balljoint thread.........

I see what you're saying but we are talking about modified parts here that are working the opposite way round to how they were engineered. I'm not sure bumpstops would help in this case as they would need to be pretty close to the trailing arms to be effective and therefore being hit by the trailing arms during normal use or maybe i've mis-understood you.

It's not that I am not having a leap of faith I'm just trying to establish that all parts are up to the job!!!!

 

[Frisco69]

Paul @ T2D told me they had these kits tested to 5 tonnes of pressure/weight, and thats unsprung, as opposed to the force that a 1.5(?) tonne van can make.

Thanks Clem! This is the kind of answer I'm looking for rather than just the usual "lots of people use these without any issues" etc etc.

Now this sounds more promising and shows that the kit could well be up to the job!!!

 

[Frisco69]

How much pressure would you need to push a bolt of that size completely off of its thread?? that's the last thing I'm worried about...

And it's a nut not a bolt!!!

You can't just assume it will be fine because it's a large nut!!!

Sorry I'm from Holland, choosing English words is not as natural as you do

About the bolt, eh, nut , if you want more information about the strengths it could handle you should contact T2d or Transporterhaus because they should have tested that.

I'm affraid this question can be put together with the questions according the strenght of the welded typ of dropped spindles.... you'll probably never know but to find out when they break...

No worries. Sorry for getting a little cranky with you!
I have contacted Transporterhaus prior to posting here and I got the impression that these nuts were not tested like the balljoints were which is why I've mention it here. Although it has now been suggested that the whole assembly has been tested to 5 tonnes which is good!
I have emailed Alex a link to this thread so hopefully he will be able to contribute soon!

 

[ground hugger]

I must say looking at these photos ,that nyloc nut doesn't look as though there is enough threads protruding to make it affective

Compared to an original ball joint

My concern would be the nut coming undone ,due to vibration not shearing

 

[dubdubz]

I'm not sure if that was fully tightened in that pic, if it isn't there isn't much more than pictured through so I do agree. Although I'm not sure what the T2D's are like I assume very similar.

I as stated intend to also use threadlock, I may even safety wire the nuts too?

The bottom section almost needs some 3mm or so milling off it?

Anyway.............

I am still waiting for T2D installed spindle pics as I originally posted to compare my fitment to the rival product - it's turned into a 'are they dangerous' thread - I'm not interested in some respect as I have made my buying choice.

Please could we keep the thread on track?

 

[Frisco69]

I'm not sure if that was fully tightened in that pic, if it isn't there isn't much more than pictured through so I do agree. Although I'm not sure what the T2D's are like I assume very similar.

I as stated intend to also use threadlock, I may even safety wire the nuts too?

The bottom section almost needs some 3mm or so milling off it?

Anyway.............

I am still waiting for T2D installed spindle pics as I originally posted to compare my fitment to the rival product - it's turned into a 'are they dangerous' thread - I'm not interested in some respect as I have made my buying choice.

Please could we keep the thread on track?

Apoligies dubdubz, this thread has been hijacked some what. Good idea about the safety wire bud. Perhaps a home made locking tab would do the job to save drilling?

 

[dubdubz]

It's not a major problem - I just wanted to keep this thread as an 'installed' one, and we can have another with the arguments and questions about operation.

Or we can lump it all in to this thread I guess so if any searches it's all here?

I'm not really precious about it per se , it's more of a search thing for others........ 8)

 

[Freezzr]

I also used Loctite on the nuts for some piece of mind.

 

[TransporterHaus]

Hi,

Firstly apologies I don't get time to get online much now.

The Ball joint nuts are high tensile and are supplied by the ball joint manufacturer, who is a huge manufacturer in the USA. We are confident there is no issue with the nuts or they would not be supplied by the manufacturer.

We have seen a lot of trailing arms and never seen any damage on the thread of the ball joint or the nut.

We were far more concerned with the friction fit ball joint coming out of the trailing arm socket as this does happen on stock set ups. Heard of one only last week! From removing and fitting a LOT of ball joints I personally would be happier to run a locked ball joint than a standard ball joint even on a stock suspension.

Manufacturers do not give out any information other than saying the ball joints are built to OEM (VW) spec.

Whether the pressure is being applied from the top or the bottom of the nut whatever application it is used in there will be a limit where it fails, hence the different tensile strengths available, which are marked on the nut.

Since there has been some concern raised here about the strength properties of the high tensile nuts we use, we will build a jig and test the nut on a ball joint to destruction. Bear with us on this, we have a lot of work in at the moment.

 

[TransporterHaus]

How about dust shields, etc on the Transporterhaus spindles?
I know the T2D ones haven't got any, and recommend regreasing every month or so.

I'm trying to make a choice between Transporterhaus and T2D dropped spindles.
We've fitted a couple of sets of T2D spindles to split vans at my mate's workshop, and to tell you the truth they're a right pain in the ass.
Backplate turned through 90 degrees, brake flexible to bottom cylinder, leading edges of brake shoes now trailing, no protection from the elements due to the dust caps not fitting.
T2D say themselves that they need regreasing every couple of months.
Are the Transporterhaus ones any better?
Or do these problems not arise on balljoint beams?

On king and link pin spindles you don't need to turn the back plate 90 degrees if you use a 64-67 backing plate. You do need to move the hose to the bottom cylinder or the hose won't cleat the king pin. Link pin dust caps can not be fitted as the king pin is rotated 180 degrees and they no longer fit.

Whether they are t2d or Transporterhaus or 99% of the other people making king pin spindles they are pretty much built the same coz there is only one way to build em. The only difference may be the price!

Regular greasing = long part life on king pin spindles whether they are stock or dropped.

 

[mattp]

Since there has been some concern raised here about the strength properties of the high tensile nuts we use, we will build a jig and test the nut on a ball joint to destruction. Bear with us on this, we have a lot of work in at the moment.

Now that is a good offer -hopefully this answers the questions raised but others (not the OP). All I can say is thanks to whoever put Transporterhaus onto this as this thread had too much speculation and I think that this system is the best way to lower a bay and maintain ride on a BJ set up; we don't want what if threads as they are not helpful. T2d and Transporterhaus, keep up the good work.

Darren, back to your thread.........