what are me options

[sharky71]

as some of you might of read me post about oil light,i'm thinking the engine needs abit of tlc.
now......as above really,what are me options?
1/ cost of a bottom end rebuild?
2/ cost of top end rebuild?
3/ cost of the two together?is just simply add the two prices together or is it cheaper to do the two at the same time?
4/ just buy a new engine?

does anybody have an idea of costs to the questions above?
when it comes to engines i've pulled it about a dozen times,set timing about four times(new dissy's),set valve clearances twice,swapped carbs three times(progressive to ict's,ict's back to progressive then to stock 34pict,long story :roll and now the issue of oil light and complete lack of power around the gower towing a trailer rammed with kit(see camping list in general thread).
what i want is to be able to tow a trailer comfortably at 50-55mph on motorways and not loose too much speed up hills,be reliable,not too thirsty on fuel and not worry it might go bang cos it's been messed with,in short i would like consistant speed and a torquey reliable lump,not into speed cos it handles like a bloody jelly round corners cos it is stock with regards to height,interior and brakes.
any suggestions? rebiuld or buy new? new which one sp or tp.

regards.

sharky.

:fighting0038:

:sick0019:

 

[ZedBed]

You won't know what it needs until you pull it apart. Your top end rebuild could be as simple as new rings and lap the valve seats or could be new heads pistons and barrels.

Bottom end the crank case thrust may have already been machined to max or maybe doesn't need machining so new bearings all round and job done.

BTW a 1600's never going to tow a stuffed camper pulling a trailer without slowing down up the hills, but getting those ICT's sorted would help a bit.

 

[sparkywig]

Mine's fine, sits at 55mph and returns good mileage. Does drop into 3rd on long hills though, but what do you want from 47bhp.
Get the ICTs back on and sorted, and make sure the timing and valve clearances are spot on.

 

[sharky71]

if i upgrade to bigger then are we talking mega bucks :shock: ?don't fancy having to shell out for new brakes and gearbox,just want to enjoy me van and worry about the next issue,or should i just chill and plod along in the slow lane :lol:

 

[sparkywig]

Your money, your decision.

 

[lard]

cost depends a lot on type of engine and how far you go - run in 2110 type fully specced engines are in the for sale section for circa £3500 (and some likely cost more to build)

believe you can only go above a certain size (1771?) without having to consider new cranks and other geometry setups because of the need to increase the depth of the barrels and this is where the costs start stacking up, the alternative is to either build a rock solid 1600 TP or the first simple step of going to 1641 without too much investment for a modest increase in BHP alongside the ancillaries such as carbs, exhaust e.t.c.

Reconditioned from Vege, TES e.t.c. cost around £1500 for the basic lump, going onwards of £2500 for turnkey setups

I agree with Zed in that your engine could be saveble and worth investigating before replacing entirely, I had issues with my engine and after swapping various ancillaries, carbs e.t.c. - dropped it out and replaced the heads (including all valves) and swapped the barrels and pistons for new 1641 setup, put in a bug pack exhaust and replaced lots of wiring and fuel lines - cost around £600 iirc and I did it over a weekend by myself without any prior knowledge (armed with a bentley ) - there are other jobs to do whilst you have the engine out and don't necessarily need to split the case for some I believe

 

[sharky71]

thanks guys,you've given me something think about.
shall look into this bentley book and see how tec' it is to strip down and check the lump.
does it describe how to recognise shagged items or is it for the trained eye?
i take the van off the road in the winter (don't want me new paint exposed to the salt etc,kept in garage)so if i can find abit of dutch i might have a fettle.
is there any special tools i will need or just a basic socket n spanna set do?


sharky.

 

[ZedBed]

Time to start reading...
As 67Panel said earlier - don't panick!
Try the 20-50 oil now we know the engine's worn - it might keep it alive for a while and you can sort it at your leisure over the winter.

Atempt to estimate how much end float you have and report back. This is a good indication of the work you might need on the bottom end. The easiest rebuilt is one that's just nudged out of spec because of bearing wear - simple and cheap to renew all the bearings when there's no damage done to anything else. Sadly, because they do keep on running most people seem to run them until a big end goes or the case is shagged beyond re-use. That's why T1 rebuilds tend to be expensive. A T4 engine has a more solid bottom end, the cases, crank etc are nearly always re-useable which is a headstart even if the parts you do need are expensive.

A refreshed 1600 with new bearings, rings etc is a lovely engine and will almost definately go better than yours at present. Whether you stay with SP or go DP would probably depend on the condition of your heads. Silly to replace them if they are good. Obviously when rebuilding, the bigger cc's you make it, the more power you will have. Building it up to a solid safe style of 1776 won't make it a drag racer, but it will nudge it along a level so you should get up the hills without slowing down. That needs head and case machining + new barrels and pistons as a minimum. Up from that is stroking it with a new crank etc - more expense... and on we go. I decided 1776 might disappoint me so went up to 1955cc. It's still no drag racer and it was expensive, but it's blurry lovely. However if I hadn't had a whole heap of the parts needed already it would have cost nearly as much as the van. :shock:

Down the opposite end is an exchange engine from VW Elite. http://www.elitevw.com/products.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've fitted a couple of these and you have to be on the ball. Both had problems from the off, but I have to say the customer service was excellent considering the low, low price and both resolved with the minimum of fuss. If you go this way expect to see a LOT of re-used parts including rusty dented push-rod tubes. This is how they keep the price down, but they do a thorough job on the bearings etc - they just don't fit loads of new parts just for the sake of it. You pays your money and you get what you pay for. There will be scare story's out there regarding this company, but at that price you can't really moan.

Welcome to the world of knackered engines.

 

[alex4057]

RECONDITIONEDengines from Vege, TES e.t.c. cost around £1500 for the basic lump, going onwards of £2500 for turnkey setups

Fixed that for you

 

[mattd]

shall look into this bentley book and see how tec' it is to strip down and check the lump.
does it describe how to recognise shagged items or is it for the trained eye?

This is the Tom Wilson one you want for tear down and rebuild: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0895862255
If you want to start going away from stock then this How to Hotrod book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0912656034

I decided to go stock after looking at buying or building oversized pistons and stroker engines, and since I know my current engine was to to rebuild it myself (slowly) over this winter.

 

[sharky71]

This is the Tom Wilson one you want for tear down and rebuild: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0895862255" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

just ordered this manual with the best intentions of having ago :lol:
is there any specialist tools i will need to remove/replace various parts??
baring inmind i am a complete novice with a socket set and some spannas :lol: :roll:

regards.

sharky.
:sick0019:

 

[lard]

RECONDITIONEDengines from Vege, TES e.t.c. cost around £1500 for the basic lump, going onwards of £2500 for turnkey setups

Fixed that for you

whoops! quite an important oversight! cheers - have edited

 

[Jimbly]

Time to start reading...
As 67Panel said earlier - don't panick!
Try the 20-50 oil now we know the engine's worn - it might keep it alive for a while and you can sort it at your leisure over the winter.

Atempt to estimate how much end float you have and report back. This is a good indication of the work you might need on the bottom end. The easiest rebuilt is one that's just nudged out of spec because of bearing wear - simple and cheap to renew all the bearings when there's no damage done to anything else. Sadly, because they do keep on running most people seem to run them until a big end goes or the case is shagged beyond re-use. That's why T1 rebuilds tend to be expensive. A T4 engine has a more solid bottom end, the cases, crank etc are nearly always re-useable which is a headstart even if the parts you do need are expensive.

A refreshed 1600 with new bearings, rings etc is a lovely engine and will almost definately go better than yours at present. Whether you stay with SP or go DP would probably depend on the condition of your heads. Silly to replace them if they are good. Obviously when rebuilding, the bigger cc's you make it, the more power you will have. Building it up to a solid safe style of 1776 won't make it a drag racer, but it will nudge it along a level so you should get up the hills without slowing down. That needs head and case machining + new barrels and pistons as a minimum. Up from that is stroking it with a new crank etc - more expense... and on we go. I decided 1776 might disappoint me so went up to 1955cc. It's still no drag racer and it was expensive, but it's blurry lovely. However if I hadn't had a whole heap of the parts needed already it would have cost nearly as much as the van. :shock:

Down the opposite end is an exchange engine from VW Elite. http://www.elitevw.com/products.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've fitted a couple of these and you have to be on the ball. Both had problems from the off, but I have to say the customer service was excellent considering the low, low price and both resolved with the minimum of fuss. If you go this way expect to see a LOT of re-used parts including rusty dented push-rod tubes. This is how they keep the price down, but they do a thorough job on the bearings etc - they just don't fit loads of new parts just for the sake of it. You pays your money and you get what you pay for. There will be scare story's out there regarding this company, but at that price you can't really moan.

Welcome to the world of knackered engines.

My girlfriend bought me a recon from Elite three years ago for Christmas and it's been brilliant. As Zed said, a couple of bits missing - thermostat bracket for example - but no complaints at all. And incredibly cheap, picked the bus up and fitted it and everything.

Subsequently messed about with it myself - should know by now to leave stuff alone.

Fitted ICTs, ported heads and high ratio rockers for a while and it's lovely. Strong, sweet and pulls fully loaded bus and 500Kg folding caravan no problems. Its an SP but with doghouse cooler.