1776cc Pro build advice please!

[Pete71panel]

Im new to the forum. 1st post here so hi everyone!

I'm looking for help from you lovely experienced folks to put a spec together for a 1776cc engine build based on my existing 1600tp. Its a 71' panel van btw

The shortblock is all original matching numbers to my van with 60k miles on it. The case has never been split and end float is not an issue. Just had a new clutch recently.

All the other parts I've accumulated along the way;

- Auto Linea stock valve size heads, currently unworked.
- Vintage speed hideaway muffler for stock heat exchangers.
- Dual Dellorto 36DRLAs on CB manifolds (drilled for brake booster vacuum) CB hex bar linkage.
- Electronic fuel pump on a csp relay feeding a Filter king regulator.
- BMD serpentine pulley kit
- Gene Berg welded fan
- Compufire dual cool 90a alternator and OG alt stand.
- All original tinware stripped and painted.

Im after a mild 1776 that ticks like a sewing machine and is very reliable. Top end speed not of concern but more torque and pick up needed over the 1600. This is going to be a daily driver btw!

So im hoping to reuse the case, cut for 90.5 p&c, get the heads cut , ported&polished with valve job, port match manifolds and exhaust ports and get essential parts reworked and balanced.

I am considering Stateside for the machining work and maybe build it up as well. If not I'll ask Jason at Interpro to build it if possible.

Now to the questions...

1 - is it essential for the case to be tapped for full flow and budget for external oil filter and remote cooler? I'd rather keep it simple if pos.

2 - What should I be budgeting for the machine work including 90.5 p&c / replacement wear parts?

3 - What should I be budgeting for a pro-shop build-up?

4 - Is there a big advantage to be had in replacing the cam with a different profile given the stock head flow work? If so recommend me a cam please!

5 - Any deviations from the parts I've listed I'm all ears.

6 - Gearbox. I have the original stock 002 which has a notch in first gear. If I pull it and send to Bears for a recon will stock gearing be fine or do I change the fourth gear set?

Thanks in advance for reading all this and if you can offer any advice It will be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

Hi Pete,

Firstly Welcome :mrgreen:

Check out the traders section on this forum as often discounts can be had!

1) Yes with a 1776cc I would highly recommend running full flow, If you don't want to go full flow you could always go for a 1641cc?

2) it all depends on the shop but its not cheap,

3) Again labour and man hours are the biggest cost with anything like this.

4) Yes a 110 or something similar will give you more duration than a stock cam so increase crucial Torque as well and Bhp.

5) This is were I would be devils advocate, Your original engine sounds fine and is matching numbers to the bus. Personally I would moth ball your original engine and buy a brand new unit from us (https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/211100037/engine-ssp-all-new-1776-no-exchange-needed/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false I would sell the heads you have to recoup some cash, but I think after you price up all the parts you will need plus the labour cost involved in the machine work and assembly it will be more cost effective to buy our brand new lump.

6) Yes I would upgrade the gearbox as it will make cruising far more comfortable for both you and your engine. Again get a cost for your box being rebuilt but its will be close to the cost of a box from us that is designed to run an engine such as you are building (https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC300002FF/rancho-t2-freeway-flyer-002-gearbox-68-71-1-6-type-eng/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

Obviously the big bonus is we have what you need on the shelf and ready to go!

You get a 5% discount being a member of the forum too,

Hope this helps,

All my best

Alex

(If I can assist with advise or anything else feel free to email me [email protected])

 

[megaaircooledvw]

Full flow is tricky as your support bar is in the way for the normally tapped hole and the oil pipe coming from your pump,but there are other ways to do it.

 

[K@rlos]

Full flow is tricky as your support bar is in the way for the normally tapped hole and the oil pipe coming from your pump,but there are other ways to do it.

Not that hard, 45 degree union out of the pump cover. With Alex on the cam, a 110 is a nice drivable cam in a bus. Also agree with is turnkey idea if your current motor is the og unit.

 

[sparkywig]

Full flow is tricky as your support bar is in the way for the normally tapped hole and the oil pipe coming from your pump,but there are other ways to do it.

Umm, nope.

 

[jonboylaw]

Change the bearing in the BMD pulls, mine failed after less than 3k miles. Known issue as they used cheap bearings. You can buy quality replacements from any bearing shop.

Heads could do with working. I offer a service for this that includes 3 angled (or more if you wish) seats, modified valves, gas flowing to the ports that will give you a significant flow increase (20%) that is designed specifically for van motors. Or I can supply a set of bigger valve heads that have the work done and are cut for 92/90.5s

A 110 may be too big for this motor, a C35 is slightly less lumpy and more suited to a smaller capacity bus motor. Stock cam will work but I'd recommend putting 1:1.25 rockers to get a bit more lift, especially if you sort the heads.

I would get an external filter at minimum and whilst at it put in a cooler for piece of mind and extra capacity.

36 dells will be nice, 55 idles, 128 mains.

PM me for details on the heads if you are interested.





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[Pete71panel]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

Alex, thanks for all that. Lots of food for thought there. If this venture is going to cost me circa £4.5k+ either way, I'm going to have to save some more coin! :lol:

I'm not keen on the 1641 idea tbh. I may as well stick to thicker wall 1600 for the time being. Thinking of either getting my auto linea heads worked over or sell them on and get an 85.5 pair of fully gone over heads from Stateside Tuning. These could be bored to 90.5 when the rest of the parts for 1776 have been got together. As I'm not in urgent need of this motor I'd like to build this blueprinted top to bottom. Happy to take my time and do it right.

Thanks for confirming the full flow outlet will work with the moustache bar Carlos and Sparkywig.

Cheers for the offer on the head work and highlighting the bearing issue Jonboylaw. Ill swap that bearing out. What is your business called?

Both Alex and Jonboylaw have brought up big valve heads. Now I was thinking opened up stock heads would be a better match to 36drlas, mild cam and stock 1.1:1 rockers. I see how big valve heads make the most of every ounce of air 36drla could possibly suck but does that then require 1.25:1 rockers to make the most of the head flow? Is there a significant advantage to be had from big valve heads/ratio rockers in this particular application? In my mind this is the slippery slope to building a stoker motor $$.

 

[jonboylaw]

You need to be careful about going to larger valves, there is a point where you will lose bottom end pull due to lower gas speed. This is not good for a bus motor. Most of the heads on the market are really designed for high flow/high rev which is ok in a bug but will leave you frustrated in a bus where what you want is torque.
I would recommend max inlet of 40mm, with stock sized ports. This will give you good gas speed. The biggest gain you will get is by having a proper valve/seat job done. This will help you gain flow at low valve lift, which is the majority of the cam timing and gives you the torque.
Ratio rockers just multiply the cam lift without having to go to a radical cam profile (which would require very strong springs and would wear your lifters quickly). The choice really depends upon your cam selection. Again, don't go too wild as you will drop the torque. What max revs will you be planning for? What will you use the bus for? How do you drive your bus? Will you go larger bore in the future? These will all dictate the cam/head requirements.


Feel free to PM me any questions.



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[K@rlos]

I have this pump cover on my bus, it's a Gene Berg pressure relief with a shaved 45 degree Union shaved specifically to work on an early bay 68-71 with the moustache bar.



Let's be honest Gene Berg enterprises know their shit

If you want a merged header however, that does take some fabrication...

 

[Pete71panel]

K@rlos Thanks. Yea, this looks like the way to go. I hear the moustache bar varies from one model year to the next so well see how much moding it neads even woth the right fittings. I'm a fan of Gene Berg parts as well. Top quality and well thought out every time.

Well it looks like I've made a decision. I'm taking the advice on mothballing my matching numbers motor. I've been talking with Dan Simpson @ Vintage Speed about a 1904cc turnkey using my ancillary parts. This is going to be good! arty0010:

 

[jonboylaw]

Should be fun. Dan will see you right.


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