Big engine: any downsides?

[Marriedblonde]

5000 miles into a European/Moroccan road trip on a virtually stock 1600 with twin carbs and I honestly can't see why I'd need a bigger engine. If I wanted to sit at 70mph I could, but I drive a bus so getting places quickly isn't a priority.
It's got me up and over the pyrenees and Atlas Mountains. Never unable to keep up with traffic. 25mpg and no issues thus far.

Not sure a 1776 or 2L+ would do anything for me

That obviously works for you but didn't work for me when I was stock. I love having a bigger lump I can cruise all day at 55-60mph fully loaded but I have more than enough power to pull a loaded trailer 4 up up even the biggest of hills without braking a sweat or slowing down and when I want to surprise the odd rep I can put my foot down.

I can't see a stock 1600 ever working for me and my needs.

But reading through this thread its about 50/50 for larger engines compared to stock.

 

[SiDev]

Interesting views, those that are happy with stock can't see any reason for going big, those that have had stock and have gone big wouldn't go back to stock.....I think a ride in a big engined bus will make my mind up......

 

[StuF]

Dont get me wrong - I would love a nice big 2 litre + engine in my bus to potter about in but my concern was the added expense with all the associated upgrades that I feel are necessary to get the most from the engine and keep things safe on the road.
I doubt there would be much change from £5000 with a decent sized fresh engine, rebuilt gearbox, remote servo and external oil cooling. Never mind the ancillary parts such as carbs/ignition and setup costs.

Bear in mind my daily driver is a 200+Bhp Mk5 Golf GTI and jumping into the Bay with about 40bhp is a fair adjustment
I dont really consider a 1776 a "big" engine just a nice sensible upgrade whereas rocking a 2309cc without any upgrades - would be too much of a handful and would destroy a standard gearbox in short order never mind reining in the wave of torque or increased acceleration on standard drums without a servo!

 

[dazza1975]

Interesting views, those that are happy with stock can't see any reason for going big, those that have had stock and have gone big wouldn't go back to stock.....I think a ride in a big engined bus will make my mind up......

Have always been stock or 1641 and after a very slow journey up the hills in Newquay I have the all clear from her in doors to sort it out.

Looking at various options and putting things in place bit by bit like bigger exhaust, twin carbs before the big expense if I feel the need.

After having the privaliage of having a ride in j's bus aka married blond, omg omg omg, a big lump is a must once funds allow. That bus flies, literally thrown back in the seat!

Any how's, either or its your bus, your rules just enjoy it as life's to short!

 

[SiDev]

Dont get me wrong - I would love a nice big 2 litre + engine in my bus to potter about in but my concern was the added expense with all the associated upgrades that I feel are necessary to get the most from the engine and keep things safe on the road.
I doubt there would be much change from £5000 with a decent sized fresh engine, rebuilt gearbox, remote servo and external oil cooling. Never mind the ancillary parts such as carbs/ignition and setup costs.

Bear in mind my daily driver is a 200+Bhp Mk5 Golf GTI and jumping into the Bay with about 40bhp is a fair adjustment
I dont really consider a 1776 a "big" engine just a nice sensible upgrade whereas rocking a 2309cc without any upgrades - would be too much of a handful and would destroy a standard gearbox in short order never mind reining in the wave of torque or increased acceleration on standard drums without a servo!

I do understand your point Stu, it's fair, but I have an Audi with the same TFSi engine you mention that I've had modified and remapped to 285bhp, goes like stink but no upgrades to anything else because I don't drive flat out everywhere. To me that's the point of a bigger motor: it's there when you want it: for K@rlos it's blasting peeps off the lights, for Toffo it's for driveability and hills, for me it's somewhere it's in between.
I also don't consider 1776 a big engine, it's "worked" not big.
The debate rolls on....

 

[SiDev]

Interesting views, those that are happy with stock can't see any reason for going big, those that have had stock and have gone big wouldn't go back to stock.....I think a ride in a big engined bus will make my mind up......

Have always been stock or 1641 and after a very slow journey up the hills in Newquay I have the all clear from her in doors to sort it out.

Looking at various options and putting things in place bit by bit like bigger exhaust, twin carbs before the big expense if I feel the need.

After having the privaliage of having a ride in j's bus aka married blond, omg omg omg, a big lump is a must once funds allow. That bus flies, literally thrown back in the seat!

Any how's, either or its your bus, your rules just enjoy it as life's to short!

To me, a big engined bus should be like "The Vampire" ride. If it is, sweet. If it's not, time to invest....

 

[lids_2001]

The 92 thick walls are probably now the best barrel but they need the same machining as a 94, so you weaken the case and heads. The 78x 90.5 is proven over the last 40 years.

I have a 2332 in my bug high CR and every option available. I would not want it in the bus as has been pointed out larger in a bus enables you to go up hills at the same speed you approved them.


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[Alex VW Heritage]

I doubt there would be much change from £5000 with a decent sized fresh engine, rebuilt gearbox, remote servo and external oil cooling. Never mind the ancillary parts such as carbs/ignition and setup costs.

£5000 I think is more the cost of an off the shelf starter rather than a full built big motor, will demonstrate below:

I'd guess at closer to £10,000 to £12,000 for a 2L plus type 1 motor (4 to 6K Parts), Carbs (1K Inc manifolds and linkage and some set up time), Exhaust (£500 to £1200), Tinware(£300 to £500), Alternator (Bosch £250), Igntion System (£150 to £1000), rebuilt gearbox with equivalent gearing of an 091 6 Rib'd box (£1300),

Then you have the easy to forget parts such as the hoses (Oil, Breather and Fuel) External Oil cooler and filter Set Up, Fuel Pump and Filter, The first time this cost me almost £1000, have just upgraded my cooler and modified the suystem cost me another £300

The most reliable and sensible option for a bus is:

1776cc Engine: (£3000)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/211100037/engine-ssp-all-new-1776-no-exchange-needed/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freway Flyer: (£1300)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC300002FF/rancho-t2-freeway-flyer-002-gearbox-68-71-1-6-type-eng/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Carbs: (£400)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC129K1411/weber-34-ict-carb-kit-t1-2-tp-or-use-ac1297411/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exhaust: (£400)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC251816/vintage-speed-sports-exhaust-system-t2-68-79-std-tail-pipe/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would try and reuse stock Tinware as they fit best but:
Tinware: (£180)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC198998/black-tinware-kit-11-pieces-t-p-doghouse-with-air/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bosch Alternator Conversion (£270)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC903900/alternator-conversion-kit-55amp-bosch-inc-belt-pulley/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

External Oil Kit: (£280)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC117308410/cooler-fan-kit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


So over £5800 but that is before any club discounts etc have been applied.

I currently have a 2276cc motor on a tall gear'd box and love the torque and HP available but in all honest it isn't much faster than my 1776cc and certainly has been less reliable. Its is more relaxed though having the big motor much less effort as less up and down the gearbox.

Do email me [email protected] if I can offer any advise or help.

All my best,

Alex

 

[toffo24]

For me I would like to have a ride in a a scooby powered bus as if I if I was to do all again I would look at this option for a 5-6k build. I have heard some good things about this conversion.

 

[K@rlos]

My 2110 owes me about £7500 now. Was a less than that when i first built it but I've recently brought brand new Webers, had new oil lines made and got the tin powder coated. Saved a lot of money because a large proportion of the build was done cheap by a good friend of mine and got a good deal on the parts so I was lucky there. But realistically Alex is right in what he says a proper big power motor is gonna be £10000 plus easy

 

[SiDev]

Thanks chaps, more food for thought...
Pete, I'm not keen to go Subaru as I want it air-cooled and original-looking, but I see how this could be a cheap route to more power. Ever noticed how all the Scooby lumps for sale only have around 80k miles though..... :lol:
K@rlos, I appreciate it's been an expensive process for you, even at mates rates, but no doubt you've got a good fun bus now.
Alex, I've always considered a 1776 a compromise, not big. That said, if it has a good cam, properly worked heads, manifolds, and a decent set 40's or 44's with a free-flowing exhaust, what sort of bhp and torque would you expect?

 

[Alex VW Heritage]

Thanks chaps, more food for thought...
Pete, I'm not keen to go Subaru as I want it air-cooled and original-looking, but I see how this could be a cheap route to more power. Ever noticed how all the Scooby lumps for sale only have around 80k miles though..... :lol:
K@rlos, I appreciate it's been an expensive process for you, even at mates rates, but no doubt you've got a good fun bus now.
Alex, I've always considered a 1776 a compromise, not big. That said, if it has a good cam, properly worked heads, manifolds, and a decent set 40's or 44's with a free-flowing exhaust, what sort of bhp and torque would you expect?

One of our 1776cc units has been seen at 115Bhp by a customer running 40's and a vintage speed system. (i would presume this is a flywheel figure)

So would be 95ish at the wheels,

(for example my 2276cc which has had TOO much spent on it is 140bhp at the wheels).

Value for money / HP / reliability and ease wise I was highly suggest our 1776cc units.

 

[m0retto]

Keep the 1600, get it reconditioned, big bore it, twin carbs and a straight through exhaust and you'll tackle hills with ease!


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[maddog]

Big engines, not much fun...hmm....

 

[Marriedblonde]

Big engines, not much fun...hmm....

We need a like button here.

 

[bay window bandit]

Glad I found this thread, as I'm now in the process of building a motor for my bus.
I had some 92mm barrels and pistons laying about, so I'll be using those, and mating the motor to a 091 6 rib gearbox that I've also got spare.
Hopefully this 1835cc setup with adequate cooling should do the trick. But I was wondering if anyone else was running a similar setup, and if so what do you think of it?