Bleeding Brakes

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stegaj

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Dear All
I have a 1970 low Light non servo with drums all round. After replacing the front shoes, cylinders, flexible hoses and brake pipes i am struggling to bleed the air out after an hour of pushing the pedal and my pal going all round the van.

We haven't been able to bleed OSR as the nipple has been broken off by previous owner so am gonna swap that and try again.

If all else fails I have a new master cylinder but hoping to bleed up and send it back.

If anyone has any pearls of wisdom to share with a newbie (only had van three weeks) I would be very grateful.

Cheers

Darren
 
If you've got one cylinder that you haven't managed to bleed yet, this could well be the only problem - you will have to at least do the other back wheel once you've replaced and bled that corner.

From experience - make sure all the shoes are well adjusted before bleeding, otherwise the movement in the shoes can be mistaken for air in the system.

Faulty master cylinder is normally diagnosed by a falling pedal once pumping up the system and then holding the last depression. I was finding that my master cylinder seemed to be pulling air in through the rear circuit (closest to the plunger). I'm still not convinced it was dead, as at the same time I swapped it, I also noticed the aforementioned brake shoe adjustment. However, the small air bubbles in the rears that I couldn't eliminate before did completely disappear, so it may well have been contributing.

As long as you keep your master cylinder topped up, you should soon find any issues if there are any.

Good luck, there's a post I popped up on here if you search listing the problems and other peoples.
 
How exactly are you bleeding the brakes? It's an exact science otherwise air will be reintroduced into the system even with all new components. Re-check for the slightest drip of brake fluid along the entire length of your new system to make sure there are absolutely no leaks. Do this again after your have good brakes since the pressure exerted when applying the brakes will find the path of least resistance ... hopefully pushing the brake pads via your wheel cylinders and stopping your bus.

Refresher on bleeding brakes ... or a guide for brake virgins. (please add to the list if I have missed anything)

- ensure all components and their connections are damage free, clean and tightened
- close all bleeding nipples!
- fill the brake fluid reservoir in the cab with approved fluid. Keep the bottle ... your helper will be refilling that reservoir often until the job is done
- slide about a 1/2 meter of CLEAR vinyl tubing snuggly over the bleeding nipple. Start at the rear passenger side. Make sure it fits tight on the nipple, without any clamps! The other end should lay at the bottom of a container (large clear empty jar is handy) to catch the excess brake fluid as it, and the trapped air, is pumped out.
- get a helper who will work the brake pedal AND watch the brake fluid reservoir level CONSTANTLY. He/she must never let the brake fluid level go empty from the reservoir which would add more air into the system. Pre-coordinate 4 very simple communication instructions such as PUMP (press the brake pedal to the floor), GOOD (brake pedal is on the floor and being held there), OFF (release foot from bake pedal) and I NEED TO FILL (fill the brake fluid reservoir)
- with your helper in the cab and you at the brake drum make sure that you can hear each other as them closed windows are hard to hear through. When ready ...

- with the correct size wrench/spanner, open the rear passenger side bleeding nipple ... a quarter turn is all that's needed. Keep your wrench/spanner on the nipple. Tell your helper PUMP, he pushes the brake pedal to the floor then says GOOD, you close the nipple (do not over tighten or you could trip the threads) then say OFF, he releases the brake pedal then says OFF. Keep repeating this process until very few little air bubbles appear in the tube at the nipple. Some people get away with the helper pumping the brake pedal several times before closing the nipple, but the helper must watch the reservoir fluid level even more closely as the fluid empties more quickly
- if your helper notices the brake fluid reservoir getting low instead of saying OFF, he/she should say I NEED TO FILL. The group of words will not be mistaken for OFF. Fill the reservoir and resume the process.
- since the system has a master cylinder, tubing and four cylinders to clear of air it won't get all of the air out in just one go-around
- repeat the process at the other rear wheel, then to the front wheel passenger side and finally the front driver side which is closest to the brake fluid reservoir
- re-repeat the entire process from the rear again only stopping once there are absolutely no air bubbles exiting all nipples
- test the brakes rolling the bus with a push, adjust the pads, retest, if all seems good take it for a road test including an emergency stop with FULL brakes applied HARD, park upon return, drink beer :p
- remember to adjust your emergency/parking brake at the lever too

- IMPORTANT!!! It is normal for your brakes feel spongy/soft/not so good after a bit of driving. Re-bleed each bus corner in the same order/procedure checking that any released air from secret hiding spots is flushed. It won't take as much time or fluid to get that last bit of air out. Regularly check you star adjusters as brake pads will wear throughout the miles.

If you still have poor brakes ... there's either a fluid leak and air is entering the system.
 
A nice comprehensive post on bleeding there.

The only thing I'd do differently is to open the bleed nipple AFTER your helper has pushed the pedal to the floor. This compresses the air in the lines, and helps to force the fluid / air out of the nipple at speed, carrying any small bubbles with it.

Once everything has been bled, I'd leave it overnight or take it for a drive as this will give any small bubbles left in the fluid a chance to coalesce. These can then be quickly bled out with another quick whip around all 4 corners.

I'm on drums all roundwith no servo or compensators, and I can lock up the fronts. 8)
 
Thanks very much I will let you know how I get on. Pretty sure the snapped nipple isn't helping, I have an eezibleed kit and if all else fails a new master cylinder. Fingers crossed and if she behaves will be going for a picnic on Sunday... :lol:
 
Bobster said:
Eezibleed ;)

Got one of those myself, but was worried that the pressure would blow the hose off either the master cylinder reservoir, or worse still, the cab cylinder end. Not risking getting brake fluid anywhere other than in the lines personally! :lol:
 
It's ok if you let your tyre down to the right pressure.

Not sure if this will help as I have discs up front now, but I had terrible trouble bleeding my breaks last few weeks, about 3-4 hours in total. It was because the calipers were on the wrong sides so the cyclinder was at the bottom and would never get rid of the air :lol: I don't think that will help with drums as you can't put the cylinder on the bottom can you?
 
I have found the Gunson Eezibleed to be a very good tool, make sure you drop your tyre presser down to the recommended PSI, I think it's 20PSI from memory and you won't have any trouble.
 
Whistler said:
It's ok if you let your tyre down to the right pressure.

*Sam* said:
I have found the Gunson Eezibleed to be a very good tool, make sure you drop your tyre presser down to the recommended PSI, I think it's 20PSI from memory and you won't have any trouble.

My reservation with this is that the the top cylinder, hose and connections are not designed to take any pressure, and as such, the connections may not stay connected when attaching the eezibleed. Each to their own and all that, but there's no way I'd want to risk the top of the hose blowing off the cylinder and blasting a massive amount of brake fluid down into the front panel where you wouldn't stand a chance of cleaning it all out before losing your paint.

Just something to think about maybe.
 
Understand what your saying, however im pretty sure that in factory they would have pressure bled them and I'm pretty sure the Bentley manuel recommends it.
 
Or drop the pressure in the tyre to something like 5 psi, it still works exactly the same you just need to pump the tyre up more often. 5psi shouldn't blow the pipe off, it didn't on my beetle with no pipe clamps.
 
Result!
After changing the OSR wheel cylinder we discovered the nipple ws broken off and the clamp holding the wheel cylinder to the back plate was sheard off. So changed the wheel cylinder and bled the system old fashioned style getting rid of all or most of the air. Then adjusted the brakes up even further. Result is we have a pedal. I think a further adjustment will improve the pedal and bring the van to a stop a little more square than it does at the moment. We do have new shoes on the front so going to give these a little time to bed in too.

Much happier now I know the brakes are safe and with a little further adjustment happt they will stop me when I need to.

Thanks again for everyone's assistance with this what a great resource of knowledge we have on here, pretty sure I will need you again as I continue to improve and restore my beautiful van. :D
 

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