new wide 5 disc conversion....and cheaper than a csp kit!!!!

[cunning plan]

Right started laying out the design today, came up against several problems:
1. no drawing in the database for early drums, spindles, wheels etc. so will have to find a second hand drum to get the bearing seat measurements off, can anyone help?

I have spare rear drums you can use - are they the same as fronts? You can pull them apart etc for the good of Team EarlyBay discs :msn4:

 

[noddy]

Thanks Uber had considered the heat issue and came to the conclusion that if there was that much heat being generated the the bearing would have to be very overtightened. also doing this is just out of interest, Im sure the kits are good value for money but I am positive these could be done cheaper. I only intend to get the main part made and let people know which caliper and disk they need then people can chose to buy new or secondhand parts to keep costs down.

I will probably go down the machined steel route and heat treat the bearing tube, we use some good prototype people at Bentley motors so quality should be ok.

Mr Plan thanks for the offer, I have take one of my drums off and got all the measurements I need, also got wheel measurements.

Now I could do with a scrap stock spindle if some one has one, I just dont want to strip my brakes down to get the measurements for the caliper mounting points.

The most expensive part of this is going to be the bearing tube, will try to get some quotes in the next two weeks.

 

[uber cool]

I'm sorted with late bay discs for now. However do have spare drum brake spindles on the bench . What measurements do you need?

 

[noddy]

Hi Uber

every thing at the backing plate mounting face, 4 x hole center height and fore aft measurements from spindle center.
Could also do with the distance of the bearing thrust face from the backing plate mounting face.

thanks

Ian

 

[uber cool]

I'm away till Friday but will respond over the weekend

 

[Clem]

Seems like T2D are about to launch a pretty cool bit of disk kit soon .....

http://www.t2d-blog.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[noddy]

Well got some done today see progress here, http://s422.photobucket.com/albums/pp303/iarmstr1/disk%20upgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now need to find a suitable VAG disk and caliper and workout offset from spindle vertical face.

Guys can someone let me know how this work better that a drum brake set up. To get within the diameter of the wheel its going to be a small disk under 230mm diameter at a guess, the friction contact area is going to be smaller than for a drum.
I get not having to adjust pads but my feeling is small disks are going to get hot quick even if vented.

 

[cunning plan]

Guys can someone let me know how this work better that a drum brake set up. To get within the diameter of the wheel its going to be a small disk under 230mm diameter at a guess, the friction contact area is going to be smaller than for a drum.
I get not having to adjust pads but my feeling is small disks are going to get hot quick even if vented.

Disc assisted with a servo has to be better than drums and at minimum - a more relaxed drive. I hear what you are saying though, smaller surface area = less area to dissipate heat meaning the efficiency goes down. To be honest though, you think about the amount of heavy vehicles out there with small discs but stop easy enough.. My Pop's Chrysler Grand Voyager is a good example! arty0021:

 

[ianscooby]

Guys can someone let me know how this work better that a drum brake set up. To get within the diameter of the wheel its going to be a small disk under 230mm diameter at a guess, the friction contact area is going to be smaller than for a drum.
I get not having to adjust pads but my feeling is small disks are going to get hot quick even if vented.

Noddy as the pm you have it's to do with the piston sizes in the caliper being able to apply a greater pressure than the slave cylinder in the drums also whilst they will get hotter than a disc they cool quicker, someone correct me if I'm wrong, the T2D set up looks ok basically what your doing by the looks.

Good luck

 

[cunning plan]

Any updates gents?

Anything the rest of us less-talented people can help with? arty0021:

 

[noddy]

Got this far, taking longer than expected due to work, have made some good progress on the design. should be ready to start costing in a week or so.

Still need a drum spindle, I cant find the drum spindle technical drawings in the VW database at work, I guess Is because it was superseded by the disk spindle which I have got the drawing for. I need the spindle to get the fixing centers for the caliper mount.

Looking at using a floating vented rotor may depend on cost, and a vag caliper.

http://s422.photobucket.com/albums/pp303/iarmstr1/disk%20upgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cunning plan]

WOW :shock: promising technical drawings there :confused0068: Getting me all excited :mrgreen:

The only thing I can offer at this point in time which is probably totally wrong -

Rear drum and assembly... Any good at all?

Do you think we should all chip in and group buy a second hand one from one of the traders? :?

 

[noddy]

No sorry fella needs to be the front LH spindle.

Cheers for the offer though.

Ian

 

[cunning plan]

No sorry fella needs to be the front LH spindle.

Cheers for the offer though.

Ian

Did we source a LH spindle or is it all chip-in time to get a second-hand one from a breaker?

 

[noddy]

Not got a spindle yet, started sending info out for costing, also asked AP racning and wilwood for help with calipers and rotors, only VAG caliper I can find that works with stock 14 inch rims means the rotor ends up being 254 diameter. I think this will be too small to offer any real braking improvment over drums. So hopefully AP or wilwood will be able to recoment a caliper and disk combination that is larger.

Only thing is its going to put costs up. Have found the caliper CSP use and that works out at about 80 quid per side excluding pads and pins, it may still be an option.

 

[james_stan]

Only thing is its going to put costs up. Have found the caliper CSP use and that works out at about 80 quid per side excluding pads and pins, it may still be an option.

Don't think that's a bad price - just a few quid more than a regular bus (late bay) caliper.

Great work so far BTW.

Cheers

James

 

[Loxy]

I think theres a pair of drum spindles in my barn that belong to haveacamper - what measurements do you need?

 

[noddy]

I need the position of the four holes from the spindle center, this is so I can design the caliper mounting bracket.

Ideal if I could borrow a spindle for a couple of weeks that would make thing much easier, as I will probably need the outer profiles as well.

 

[Loxy]

I need the position of the four holes from the spindle center, this is so I can design the caliper mounting bracket.

Ideal if I could borrow a spindle for a couple of weeks that would make thing much easier, as I will probably need the outer profiles as well.

Will check with haveacamper today, pm me your address in the meantime

 

[noddy]

Ok latest progress on design.

Started putting data out for quotes, have decide to cost two options.

Option one two piece billet hub and wheel mount.
Option two one piece cast and machined hub.

Still researching rotors and calipers, hope to use a vented disk, just need to chose a caliper thats up to the job.

latest designs: http://s422.photobucket.com/albums/pp303/iarmstr1/disk%20upgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone recommend any machine shops to get quotes from, have already asked a few but could do with some more contacts.