Air cooled attendance at shows?

[David Eccles]

I am starting this thread after some discussion on the Brighton Breeze thread (events)
There seems to be a significant drop off in air cooled classic buses at shows and events. EB used to get really good line ups /displays but it seems very to have been very thin this year eg Stan Hall, Busfest and Brighton Breeze were nowhere near numbers there used to be. From what I gather talking to people factors include a feeling water coolers are taking over events and turning people off; a general feeling shows are too expensive; a desire to get back to simple informal gatherings and ???????? Maybe the shift in ownership demographics given price of buses these days may also be a factor?
There are lots of mutterings about 4s/5s and 6s dominating shows and so old bus folks don't want to go- but to me that becomes a self defeating prophecy ...if air cooled buses stay away because of this then water pumpers WILL be the majority - and maybe old buses should come along and reclaim events...
There is also always talk about having air cooled only shows - but things like Old Friends Air Cooled only and Field of Dreams this year still don't seem to attract the numbers...plus its easy to say let's have one but actually a very hard and expensive thing to put on with possibilities of losing money...and a huge amount of work!
So, why do you think people are staying away and can anything be done to stop this downward spiral?

 

[Clem]

I can only go on my own feelings, so ...

I've found myself distracted by other events - family, home, other hobbies, and there is only so much time and money to go around. I guess after (nearly) 30 years of VW shows, then its easy to pass over doing events that I've done many times before in the past, and that I now think have diluted interest due to high attendance of modern vehicles. I don't blame organisers for that btw, I understand that bills have to be paid and the scene needs to move on. It is what it is.

That said, if I go to an event, Ill do my best to get involved, join a line up and push forward the aircooled/early bay presence.

Aircooled only events are a great concept, but rely on being one dayers to encourage car owners (Bugs, Ghias, Type 3's etc) to attend, and with that the location will have an event due to a practical catchment area and also, the weather (forecast) can kill an event pretty much stone dead, as they probably will be pay on arrival.

I feel the aircooled scene is going through a bit of a flat time right now. Plenty of money and interest in very specific areas but not so much generally. I don't doubt that increased ownership costs, uncertainty of long term fossil fuel car investment potential and 'general' national instability are all playing a little part, and it all adds up.

I look forward to folks views on all this

 

[Analog]

I agree with both of you, i mean i've never been one to attend to loads of shows, but a regular at Grill n chill, BB, beach bugging, and tried quite a few others over the years,
Like Clem, life gets in the way of a lot of stuff, and having other interests, i've also got race meets with work but i try to get to a couple of shows a year.

T4,5 and 6's are taking over that is the passage of time i guess, but i think if you don't attend a show in your aircooled, then complain that said show is crap / or going to be crap because it's full of water pumpers or not enough old buses/bugs were there then whose fault is that?
Also i think the shows need to do a bit more to maybe have areas for the different types of vehicles, if you're not club camping/lining up,
i'm probably not the only one who doesn't want to be vanwiched between a pair of transformer stickered t5's or whatever, I mean BB had a mk5 golf gti there.. Jebus, what was that all about?
Also at Beach bugging this year, i was directed to general parking for £10, but i ended up pulling over so that i wasn't being parked beside the Citroen Picasso that was in front of me on the way in.. i can do that in a Tesco car park for free :shock:

I feel we could have gotten a line up of sorts for BB if social media had been used a bit more, and earlier maybe, admittedly i don't come on here as much as i used to because of said media changing the way everyone looks at their handheld computer these days.

I don't think loads of new shows are always the answer, like someone else said those older shows are only going 'downhill' due to non attendance

 

[paul_q]

When I first started going to shows aircooled vw's were cheap and for me and most people our only vehicle. Nowadays that's the job of the water cooled so it's only natural what's happening. Personally I go to shows in the uk based on entertainment, location and value for money not what cars are there. For me going to European shows is where I go to see aircooled vehicles and will always make them shows special.

 

[ozziedog]

There are naturally less and less air cooled vehicles every year and there are naturally more and more water cooled so that part of the equation is inevitable. Some shows but not many, actually allow older air cooled vehicles in to the event for free if they display and that’s great because a lot of peeps come to shows specifically to see the oldy air cooled types. These shows usually allow the air cooled pride of place because it’s their roots, such as the Dubs At The Castle show where the Earlybay and LateBay and splits etc are herded into the actual castle grounds along with some other unusual vehicles allowing all the show goers whether camping or day visitors visual, easy, promoted and signed access to the older and unusual vehicles. Some visitors head straight to this bit to get their ‘ fix ‘ of oldy Aircooled s before they even venture around the show on the Saturday then for the glamorous there’s the show off them shiney ones on the Sunday, where the Aircooled’s are always clamoured around. If you ask people to display their cars and busses then hide them in a corner out of the way somewhere and they waste the whole day chatting amongst themselves and five or six visitors, or accept that the result will be minimal so they wander off around the show and lock their vehicles up and then the Luke warm take up is inevitable. Some shows, a few vehicles are displayed in sheds and under cover and the rest are plonked behind something else and only the extremely adventurous get to find them. There are also groups or families that bring more than one older vehicle to these shows and because of this they are paying a lot of money to bring two or more vehicles such as a beetle and a camper and these really need to be encouraged as it’s a lot of dosh to take two vehicles and I’ve noticed that this has really slowed down recently mainly due to cost and lack of encouragement. There are always excuses as to the reasons for this without trying to ruffle anyone’s feathers or rattle their cages, but if a tiny attempt to make it more of a fluid event and you have ten camper type vans willing to display ‘possibly ‘ and you can come up with a fairly decent position and maybe proposition on the day , then possibly you’ll encourage peeps to show off their pride and joy AND,,,,, make it more of an enviable thing to do in the future, because it’s going downhill at a rapid pace at the moment. I love showing off my vans d the stuff I’ve done to him, show off and shiney he ain’t but I still like to talk to peeps about their vans and their ideas and their issues including restos, all while brewing a coffee and yacking. At the largest camper show possibly in the world recently, I spoke to four peeps all day then two o’clock ish I buggered off with a mate walking around the show rather than sit as Billy no mates staring at the show in the distance (exaggerated maybe??) :roll:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,These oldies started the shows, any incentives? :mrgreen:

 

[sparkywig]

David, I tend to agree with most of what Clem is saying.
After 36 years of air-cooled bus ownership the VW "scene" has become flat, boring and over saturated with shows, usually with poor /expensive food and a ska tribute band.
You can't say that it's a general malaise, as most general vintage/classic car shows are still doing well. I think that the "scene" has partly contributed to this with the cliques and money involved, as it's mostly about profit now.
The issue with air-cooled only shows is that most people who own air-cooled vehicles want to go and camp with a group of friends, the majority of which have later model VWs.

To be honest, this year I couldn't be bothered and would rather go away for a weekend with friends in a field.
Brighton Breeze was a case in point. £25 to camp and £12 in taxi fares against £75 to not feel welcome at the Racecourse.
I'll probably come back and edit this at some point.

 

[gas1man]

This is why we would rather travel four hours and spend the weekend with like minded peeps in a field.
Enjoy a night or two and pay a reasonable amount for the privilege. (ahem....Graham ).

It's not just the cost but it does seem to be the same sort of thing every time.
Make no mistake we enjoy the different vehicles and all the effort they put in. And some I wouldn't mind owning.

For us not doing so many shows allows us to use that cash to venture more often and see more than we normally would.
More weekends away, is to us better than having to wait for only certain weekends.

J & P

 

[Myvanway]

You can't say that it's a general malaise, as most general vintage/classic car shows are still doing well. I think that the "scene" has partly contributed to this with the cliques and money involved, as it's mostly about profit now.
The issue with air-cooled only shows is that most people who own air-cooled vehicles want to go and camp with a group of friends, the majority of which have later model VWs.

To be honest, this year I couldn't be bothered and would rather go away for a weekend with friends in a field.
Brighton Breeze was a case in point. £25 to camp and £12 in taxi fares against £75 to not feel welcome at the Racecourse.
I'll probably come back and edit this at some point.

This is about right mostly...IMO.
My comment was aimed at B.B really, loved the first few times I went, was taken under the wing of the guys from E.B.com which made it special for me my partner and Adam.

Skeg Vegas was great considering the weather. and again E.B crew was fairly strong and friendly as ever. S.T.F.U kicked ass!

Missed the E.B Campouts due to family and work stuff going on.

Husbands Bosworth was for me the best campout this year. A VW/Vintage/military motor show thats for charity, with all sorts, good music and food.
Took all my family from both sides and the weather was great. We all had an awesome time.
And entrance for VW's was by donation only..... so not pants down..... so it can be done! 8)

I like the mixture of all things 'Vintage', as it can get a bit boring looking at same ol!!.....

 

[Lee C]

A lot of people I know have a bay or split in the garage & a T4/5 for actually going away in !!
I can’t afford both!
I had a T4 briefly, but it wasn’t for me , so back in a bay & loving it !!!!
Personally I only do shows within an hours drive( we have a 6 month old baby) , & even up North I’m spoiled for choice!!
Maybe there’s more shows than air cooled Vee Dubs ????
Also £££ plays a part Camperjam & Vanfest we’re fortunes when I enquired about them , extra £10 to take the vehicle ???? Wtf ???
& charging for the kids too!!!

 

[mike202]

I usually try to go to a couple of shows a year, since owning my westy 8 years ago. I don't have a lot of interest in fancy dress or the bands on in the evening, but that's fine for some people. The main reason I go to shows is to try to talk to other aircooled owners and swap ideas and experiences (for eg about various garage services) informally rather than stuff you wouldn't necessarily want to put on the forum in print. Another reason is to swap technical advice, which I find nowadays I am handing out as much as receiving !
Of course just to look at other VW's is always a great pleasure whether the're ratty or shiney, but tbh I am only interested in air-cooled not modern stuff.

 

[vwsunseeker]

I personally enjoy smaller gatherings like EB campout rather than rip off shows like Busfest / Camperjam as I find them to busy, prefer regular camping with our Bay with the Mrs and the quiet life and see who we bump into TBH.

 

[David Eccles]

reading thru these it seems to be less of a reaction against modern buses at shows but more of a desire to enjoy the bus as a camper and not really wanting the full on, busy (and expensive) festival experience ...
which I can empathise with totally...

 

[Davydomes]

more of a desire to enjoy the bus as a camper and not really wanting the full on, busy (and expensive) festival experience.

Amen to that!

 

[atafonso]

I also agree with most of Clem's post. In my case, not having my Bus ready yet prevents me from joining you guys on the nice EB shows, but i will get there soon

I use my T4 lately to go to VW shows, i always enjoy the Drag racing of Buses and Beetles, that is so much fun! But having a soft spot for American cars(and owning a few) has also made me attend other types of shows, namely American, which is a completely different atmosphere and crowd(not saying better or worse, different) .

I would love to attend more ACVW shows, but seeing loads of modern cars and the behaviour of some in the newer generation(no offense) makes me not want to be there very much

Abel

 

[paul_q]

reading thru these it seems to be less of a reaction against modern buses at shows but more of a desire to enjoy the bus as a camper and not really wanting the full on, busy (and expensive) festival experience ...
which I can empathise with totally...

I think you can't really summarise from one thread, the builders van is often a gripe on the forum and plenty on here go to the bigger shows. I think this is where people go wrong trying to organize shows thinking it's what people want to find they are poorly attended.

 

[Clem]

rip off shows

I think care is needed using terms like this. Big festival type show are very expensive to put on and will be priced appropriately. It may not be you’re bag but doesn’t mean it’s a rip
off.


On another point, VW Action. Three day event, racing, entertainment and welcoming air cooled attendance for a large two day display/show and shine for £40. But we still only had 6(?) buses attend the line up.

 

[paul_q]

rip off shows

On another point, VW Action. Three day event, racing, entertainment and welcoming air cooled attendance for a large two day display/show and shine for £40. But we still only had 6(?) buses attend the line up.

I think Brian has everything spot on, the race cars he attracts from Europe is fantastic and there's plenty of aircooled camping if not on display. I'm guilty of getting settled and not making a effort to join the line up unfortunately.

 

[K@rlos]

I’ve lost total interest in the aircooled scene, it used to be about the cars having a good time with friends. Nowadays however, it is completely centred around money and unless your vehicle is painted by a particular person with with detailed fuch it’s considered a piece of ****.

Only shows I go now are Ninove & Skeg Vegas, purely because I make ninove a week long holiday and Skeg Because it’s the only decent show left and to party with my friends. I tend to go drag racing shows like Dragstalgia and Gary’s picnic now.

 

[Graham L]

There is also always talk about having air cooled only shows - but things like Old Friends Air Cooled only and Field of Dreams this year still don't seem to attract the numbers...plus its easy to say let's have one but actually a very hard and expensive thing to put on with possibilities of losing money...and a huge amount of work!

The big point you are missing here David is that these events are run by people who are genuine enthusiasts wanting to put on shows that appeal to themselves and like minded people, agreed we will never make money out of running the EarlyBay CampOut or the Aircooled Only Campout but the way these are run we cover our costs and to me what matters is whether people have a good time, enjoy themselves and come back for more, does it really matter if the numbers arn't huge if people enjoy themselves?. I know it does if you work for a large publishing company who have large overheads etc.

With regard to your comments about Aircooled at bigger shows, we used to trade at Camperjam & Busfest and the reason we don't anymore is not only down to its not worth our time to trade at these shows but the attitude of the organisers to small traders like ourselves, we haven't traded at Camperjam since our waterlogged pitch in 2012, no compensation, we had to arrange to get dragged off our own pitch, the organisers were simply not interested, we havent traded at Busfest since 2015 again partly down to the attitude of the organisers in particular the trade manager, hardest person to deal with and is rude and I'm not the only trader thats experienced this.

Larger show organisers need to take a step back and look at what it would take to get more aircooled traders to shows, the margins are far smaller for a lot of Aircooled traders and if you encourage them to attend and Aircooled owners know they are there they are more likely to attend the shows.

At the moment the future appears to be smaller less commercial shows.

 

[Myvanway]

rip off shows

VW Action. Three day event, racing, entertainment and welcoming air cooled attendance for a large two day display/show and shine for £40. But we still only had 6(?) buses attend the line up.

This is a quality show, but clashes with my daughters birthday!.... and she is at the age where I can't twist her arm to go for her birthday!! :lol:
But yes a great show for a great cause. Think we forget how lucky we are to still have Santa Pod and what a great venue it is!!??.... Unless it rains!!.... Then its just a freaking nightmare! :shock: :lol: Weather and expense can be as said a big factor!?