dead engine

[Gman86]

back during august bank holiday on the way back from devon my engine over heated and almost ran dry of oil, i topped the oil back up and it got trailered home and i even drove it back up my road. however the weekend befor brighton breeze i give it a oil change and fit a alternator and take it for a short test run, it runs rough and there is a bad slapping sound comming from the engine it eventualy stalls and wont fire back up, gets pushed back home. ive now started stripping the engine out and notest this today,

the push rod tube seems to be bent, could this be the source of my problem? how could this of happened??

on the bright side im replacing it with a recon big bore over the winter ready for 2010 show season

 

[Airhead Anorak]

Damage would appear to have been there since the engine was built. i.e it was put down on something that damaged the tubes.

The oil could be leaking from the tube as the push rod will have worn a hold through it but it looks dry.

If there is no play in the rockers then the engine sounds like it is terminal and will need to be stripped.

What the recon big bore?

 

[Gman86]

I'm going to replace this lump with a reconditioned big bore lump from some where like VW heritage or volkspares.

 

[aogrady]

Hi!

Are you sure it isn't a loose head? Isn't that oil leaking from the fins and dripping onto the push rod tube? A loose head/broken head bolt would surely make a right old noise? And not idle as compression id going out the gaps? Just a thought?

Alistair

 

[noddy]

Alistair's got a good point.

I think if it were me I would get a compression test done on each cylinder, that should help identify which cylinders maybe problematic.

As for slapping sound it could be piston slap, or is it more on a knock which could indicate either rod knock (gudgeon pin through conrod loose/worn), or big ends gone.

One way to tack down where the sound is coming from is to put the end of a long screw driver against each cylinder and put the handle against you head just in front of you ear.

If its any good to you I have a stripped engine for sale in bits see for sale area

 

[aogrady]

:msn4: Compression check is quick and easy to do, a dry and a wet test.

And whilst I'm thinking - check the cooling fan is running true with no broken blades - that'll cause a racket - as will loose alternator pulley or crank pulley. If you have noticeable play front and aft on the crank pulley that'll probably need a rebuild.

Having a good mooch in your engine oil when you drain it may be a sign too - coppery silver bits from worn thrust washers or bearing shells.
Maybe broken piston rings would also cause a slappy noise.

The oil could have leaked from rocker gaskets, flywheel seal or pushrods, these have the capability of dumping quite a lot of oil quite quickly once they go - remember the engine doesn't hold a lot of oil - 3.5 litres i think isn't it, so probably nearly a litre from min to max.

Quite possibly it may be a easy - ish fix? And not too terminal

Best of luck with yours!

Alistair

 

[Gman86]

I think a lot of that oil there is from the oil breather pipe as it seems for quite a while the engine had high crank case pressure and a lil bit from the rocker gasket, when it did go after running too hot there was smoke and bubbling oil coming from the alternator stand gasket and another gasket near it. I did change the oil just before the breeze not relizing how dead it was and there was no signs of metal shavings in it. Thanks for you sugestions guys I'm quiet looking forward to getting this engine out and opened up to see what is wrong with it, all iv got left to do is to detatch the fuel line, remove the alternator and detatch the accelorator cable and it will be ready to come out

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

I'd avoid the volkspares engine.

My mate is currently doing a post mortem on his 1776 that came pre built from one of the major suppliers and he's found some really really dodgy stuff.
The case had been machined wrong and then welded back up, faces where gaskets had to seal had paint on them, oil pump hadn't been machined or installed properly and ended up putting bits of metal into the case.

Personally I'd split your case, have it machined locally by an engineer (thus avoiding VAT - Volkswagen Added Tax) get new barrels, pistons, heads, cam, and bearings throughout and built it yourself or find a reccomended local engine builder. Most of these recon engines are checked if they are "within tollerances" which basically means if its not completely knackered but almost they'll let it slide.

If your really looking for a prebuilt long block go to an engine specialist like Laurie Petit or Aircooled Performance rather than one of the big retailers.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the heads up wheeto. does any 1 have an oppinon on TES engines?? i would realy like to strip it down and rebuild it my self but I think its abit to much of a job to be done on my drive with the old man.

on a seperate note, I no there isnt a set figure but Id like a a ball park figure for what sort of perfomance i could expect from a 1641cc engine, twin kadron carbs, engle camshaft, duel exaust, 009 dizzy with ignitor 2 set up and a alternator. any other suggestions for squeezing out afew more horses would be welcomed

 

[Tofufi]

Thanks for the heads up wheeto. does any 1 have an oppinon on TES engines?? i would realy like to strip it down and rebuild it my self but I think its abit to much of a job to be done on my drive with the old man.

on a seperate note, I no there isnt a set figure but Id like a a ball park figure for what sort of perfomance i could expect from a 1641cc engine, twin kadron carbs, engle camshaft, duel exaust, 009 dizzy with ignitor 2 set up and a alternator. any other suggestions for squeezing out afew more horses would be welcomed

Fitting a good condition stock distributor to that setup would make it significantly nicer to drive.

I reckon you ought to be looking at 60-70hp on that, depends on the heads and so on. Be a bit of an improvement over stock - but going 1776 or more with all the bits you've mentioned would be even nicer. Just depends how much you have to spend.

 

[bananacustard]

Greg, I have a new TES big bore plus 1641 in my bus with twin 34 ICTs and a single quiet pack exhaust and it goes very nicely so far. It weeps a bit of oil, but no big deal (push rod tube and rocker gasket). I also had a TES engine in my Fastback ( just the basic Silver ) and this was a cracking engine for the price.

Definitely worth considering, although I know not everybody rates them ( probably due to their past links to Volkspares ).

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the feedback bananacustard I may well use them for simplisity. I would like to go bigger than a 1641 but I got drums all round so untill I get som discs I only want enough power to make it more comfertable to drive on motorways

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

I really really can't see the point of 1641 over stock 1600? Thinner cylinder walls and hardly any gain. Just over 5cc per cylinder, really doubt the difference its noticable. What people will notice is the difference in compression between knackered B+Ps and new ones.

If you've got no excessive end float or nasty crank related noises there isn't really any point in getting a new case. If you stick with standard 1600 you wouldn't need to change the cam, and swapping heads, barrels and pistons really isn't that big a job. You could easily do it from engine out to engine back in in a weekend, in a day if your good with the spanners, and you'd be saving an absolute fortune.

If you bang in a bigger engine you're still going to be limited by the gearbox.

I've got a stock 1600 TP in my van and it does 60mph at 3000ish rpm. My plan is to fit electronic ignition (123 Distributor) and a pair of twins (maybe 34 icts, but genuine only not repro crap) as they give better fuel economy. Eventually I'd like to find a 2.0L 6 rib gear box, or maybe a pair of aussie splitty wheels (15") to give me a bit more top end speed at lower revs for motorway work.

As for brakes rather than going for discs I'm looking into the cheaper, and just as effective option of fitting a servo. I drove a disc braked split a while back and it didnt stop nearly as well as my drums. Having them set up properly does help, but the servo makes a massive difference.

And again I'd really, really reccomend Laurie Petit over any of the large recon outfits. If you really want to go with a big supplier VEGE are meant to be alright, although I believe they are one of the dearest?

 

[K@rlos]

Greg, I have a new TES big bore plus 1641 in my bus with twin 34 ICTs and a single quiet pack exhaust and it goes very nicely so far. It weeps a bit of oil, but no big deal (push rod tube and rocker gasket). I also had a TES engine in my Fastback ( just the basic Silver ) and this was a cracking engine for the price.

Definitely worth considering, although I know not everybody rates them ( probably due to their past links to Volkspares ).

I totally agree, i fitted a silver in my bay and for £550 its a cracker Got twin Webers, 009 dizzy and quite-pack exhaust with j-tubes

The next motor for my van is gonna be a 2276cc which i'll build from the ground up. Porsche cooling, Weber 48 IDA's, MSD ingition etc And maybe a CSP pyton exhaust. But this ain't gonna be for a couple of years yet :lol:

 

[67panel]

had a knocking on idle in dragrace beetle engine,thought it was piston or loose flywheel,bolts loose in cam sprocket :!: but yours is stock riveted?and leaking head joint sounds like piston slap sometimes ,find that one with a stethescope. and a servo wont make your brakes work better just lower the pedal pressure required.buy some BIGGER boots :lol:

 

[aogrady]

had a knocking on idle in dragrace beetle engine,thought it was piston or loose flywheel,bolts loose in cam sprocket :!: but yours is stock riveted?and leaking head joint sounds like piston slap sometimes ,find that one with a stethescope. and a servo wont make your brakes work better just lower the pedal pressure required.buy some BIGGER boots :lol:

And yours looks like a leak from the head? So maybe that's the source of the noise?

Alistair

 

[Gman86]

So iv spoken to laurie pettit today, I'm in currently discussing having a 1679cc engine built by him.

 

[dubdubz]

As above really with the following to add

if the bus is a 2nd vehicle and can be stored, then I would drop the engine and see what can be done with it - it may be a good case which needs minor tweaking, if the heads and cylinders are ok and it say only needs new rings, and valves lapping in - you'll have save a fortune.

The problem with increasing cc - is where do you stop and what do you change. As stated a 1776 is a quick and easy way to increase perfomance considerably and with well set up carbs won't be any thirstier if not better than the single.
It's the driving that you do that will help decide where you stop on the displacement roundabout....2litre and above is very nice but will not be as economical and will need considerations immediatley with gearbox and brakes.

Laurie is ace imho - rate him highly - can I ask why 1679 discussed?

D