Endfloat..... help!!

[dt100]

Hi,

I've a 1972 (crossover) bay with a 1600 twin port engine, and decided it was time to fix the oil leaks and knocking on start up (loose head). First time engine out, so I'm kind of keeping a chapter ahead on Haynes and Muir!!

Anyway, engine, out, stripped, cleaned, heads off, valves re-ground etc, etc (didnt split the case)..... then just about to start re-assembly when I remembered the chapter on end float. With the flywheel on, and with the 3 shims that were there I am measuring 0.5mm endplay. With flywheel off I checked the main bearing and it is moving sideways. In fact the movement of the bearing with flywheel off is 1.5mm. The shims I currently have are 3 x 0.24mm.

The endplay seems a long way off from the 0.07 to 0.13mm that the books say. Could I replace shims to 0.34 variety, or wont this reduce enough... and in fact the problem I have is the main bearing?

* How long would an engine last if I ignored and just re-assembled?
* If you advise me to 'sort the problem'.... what do I do now, split the case (never done this before, but I'm learning!), and then how do you actually fix the main bearing?
* If I split the case what else should I look for?.... how do I tell if the other bearings are done for?
* Or from the endlplay numbers above, is my case knackered.

I wouldnt mind, but before I started this 'mini' project the engine actually ran ok, sure the heads rattled until they warmed up, and it did leak oil, but starting to think I should have just lived with it.... but now so much dismantled I may as well try to do what I can to fix...

Any help or advise greatlfully received....

 

[Todster]

Hi DT,
Unfortunately, sounds to me like a strip and rebuild job. Far too much sideways play in them main bearings, and, if its moving that much at the flywheel, the other bearings must have some oversize to them to allow this. If you were to just put it back together, it would be 'piece of string' time. Could go tomorrow, next week, next month.... Depends how you feel about driving around knowing that it will fail, and, when it does, it could mean a total engine.

Was your oil light on whilst ticking over in the summer? Classic VW main bearing shot indicator. Mine was flickering on and off.

You say the head was loose. Are you sure that the studs are not pulling out of the case? Again, that is what prompted my strip down.

On the other hand, you could split the case (not as scary as I thought it would be, see my thread in the gallery) work out what bits you need, (more than likely new oversize bearings, regrind crank) depending on state of case, that may be all you need.

There are videos on YouTube of engine builds that I found useful.

Hope you get sorted,

Cheers
Mark

 

[dustrat]

From symptons you discribe it seems that you need your case line bored and and flycut.The end float is measured between flywheel and thrust bearing so if you fit larger shims you will end up locking flywheel to bearing and turning bearing in its seat. You will have to find a good VW engine machine shop in your area who can do this type of work. Get them also to check your crankshaft as well as it might need a regrind. The best bet is to get them to supply bearing. As far as heads becoming loose I have found on high milage engines this can be common. If the head studs have pulled in case this is not end of world as case saver inserts are available from VW parts suppliers and can easily be put in by machine shop whilst doing your case.When you come to rebuild engine stick to torque settings and do not over tighten.A good book to get a hold of is ' How to Rebuild Your Aircooled Engine' by Tom Wilson. Good luck with rebuild,if you follow instuctions you will suprise yourself how easy it can be to do.
Robert

 

[dt100]

Thank you for your replies..... so ok, I opened this box of magic, and whoooo.... It's not actually containing of mystical content. Actually its all looking pretty simple....

So I measure the main crank, and it's diameter is +0.5mm to standard..... I measure the case crankshaft diameter and it's plus +1mm to standard. Both measurements are exact (I obviously have a reconditioned engine at some point over the last 40+ years!). The thrust bearing (I've assumed this refers to no 1 bearing) is 1.3mm from standard. Hence I've ordered a set of bearings from machine7 at 0.5, 1, 2. I'm hoping thus that:

1. No 2 (split bearing) and no 4 bearing should be fine...
2. No. 3 bearing, I'm contemplating ignoring as not sure about getting the gear off the crank... but then again, I'm ok with pullers to get off, but what about heat required to get back on?
3. No 1 bearing.... This will (should) be undersized... hence, rather than go for a crankcase mod I'm thinking of turning the bearing to fit the crankcase (I have access to a lathe).

Other problem I think is that the dowel plug for no 1 bearing has both elongated the hole in the bearing, and also become a loose fit in the bearing, allowing approx 0.7 mm of movement. I intend to enlarge thedowel plug hole in crankcase and bearing, and make a mini dowel plug to fit (using the lathe).

If you think I'm on the wrong tact on this, then please advise, but I'm intending on investing in new bearing set (£40).... but wanting to not have to go 'external' for machining work....

.... on another subject, anyone around Newmarket area handy with a welder.... just removed the fuel tank to find a large 'orange sized' hole under it..... aaaafrgh, only remove it to re-connect the fuel sender electric connection that my fat hands couldn't reach....

 

[dustrat]

Well done. As far as third bearing use a gas cardridge gun and heat camshaft gear and distributor drive gear on crankshaft before using puller and it should come off no problem. It's false ecomomy not replacing this bearing. The worst part is getting circlip off. When you reasemble gears heat the gears up again and tap them on, I've made a 'G' clamp which makes easier. Make sure the timing marks on camshaft gear are facing flywheel pulley end. As you have the engine stripped down it would also be a good idea to replace camshaft and conrod ( big end ) bearings. Keep us posted.
Robert

 

[dt100]

Dust rat,

Thank you.... and you were right about the circlip, spent longer on that than getting the bearing off, which I did as you advised, a blast from the gas cartridge gun, and using just three legged pullers (with a bit of angle grinding on the legs to get a seat!!).... wouldn't say they 'slipped off', but with a fair bits of torque on the puller nut, it all comes apart!!

Waiting for it to all cool down a bit, clean it up, and off to the freezer whilst I await delivery later of new bearings. Thought was to chill the crank whilst heating the gear for re-assembly...

Also, taken your advise on camshaft and con-rod bearings, I suppose for an extra £20 silly not to do, although the existing didn't look particularly worn when I took them off...

Regards