Engine Choice

[andyh]

Hi all. As the new and v excited owner of a 69 Westy which at the moment has no engine, I'm wondering what to go for? I've tried the search facility but both "engine" and "choice" are a little too common to be much use, so sorry if this is a bit of an old chestnut or can of worms!
I'm looking for something with a little more oomph than standard, ideally with the ability to cruise happily at 70 rather than 60 if desired, (long trip to S of France planned in the summer...). Obviously there is no "perfect solution", but I'd be really interested to hear what engine/gearbox combinations people are using and how they are working out in terms of performance and fuel consumption etc.
Information on trusted/recommended suppliers would be gratefully received as well, with the proviso that I'm going to need to get something sourced with 2 or 3 weeks.
Thanks all in advance.

 

[67panel]

opinion is split on here ,best for crusing motorways most would say 1776cc with good heads (ported)mild cam ,good exhaust and 2 single barrell carbs with a 6rib 2litre box.but a lot will say stock 1600 and box stay at 55/60 and get there later but more reliable(falacy that a built engine is not reliable)thing is a stock new motor comes in at 2k plus ,a built 1776 will cost 2.5 k in bits aprox and then you need to find or have built a gearbox.depends how large your wallet is!!and dont forget needs runing in for about 200 miles and then check over,all in 3weeks :shock: best of luck.hope you sort it for a cracking hols.

 

[Matt_B]

My 2 pence worth:

I've had a stock 1600, a 1641 and now a 1955, the 1955 is great, pulls well when fully loaded - the 1641 would struggle when full with all the camping gear.

In essence all 3 engines would cruise at 60 or 70mph, but for me it's about torque which a bigger engine will give - just depends on budget as to how big you can afford to go. Also don't skimp on setup once the engine is built - a rolling road session is well worth the money.

I also found noise was also a factor when going to 70mph for long journies - Bays aren't the most aerodynamic vehicle ever built - so going down to 60 was a little easier on the ears too! I also have dynamatted the van to death and can hardly hear the engine at 60mph which helps

 

[froggy]

If your in a rush then an off the shelf 1600 / 1641 is the easiest way but it wont be cheap (no turn key engine is cheap)
If you have time to build something yourself then the common engine build size seems to be 1776, again it wont be cheap

 

[james_stan]

I'd be sorely tempted by a Subaru conversion. Not a whole lot more than a 'custom' T1 engine
I saw some nice stuff at Stanford Hall - about 2-3k (less engine about 1k) depending if you DIY.

Also since they can rev higher much more reliably you'll get your 70 on a standard box I would think. Maybe better mpg too.

JS

 

[crede999]

I also found noise was also a factor when going to 70mph for long journies - Bays aren't the most aerodynamic vehicle ever built - so going down to 60 was a little easier on the ears too! I also have dynamatted the van to death and can hardly hear the engine at 60mph which helps


thats great advice and so true (i had death by dyno too fantastic stuff)..............a new stock 1600cc single port block (Remtec 2 year guarantee or 12000 miles) (i had all the ancilleries )has served me great with two big euro trips under my belt (6000 miles total) and were off again this year to s of france.

id add 70 in a bay down the motorway isnt what its about really for me :roll: too on a mission driving that for me , coasting along at 60 with the tunes on sunny day does it for me and my 1600cc can do that very easierly without over doing it ,it doesnt make much difference 70 over 60 either and when you do france youll see why less cars less stress plenty of open roads 8)

my advice would be whatever your engine choice, get it set up correctly and more importantly treat it well,regular oil changes and servicing,and follow the guidelines the engine builder sets out to the later!

theres lots of companies out there ,remtec ,TES, vege, to name but a few

chris

 

[ozziedog]

That was virtually word for word, my thoughts when I first had this bus a few years back. I have since chilled even more than before if that`s possible :lol: It`s more (to me) about the journey and just being in the bus than getting there, because I have to get out of my bus when I get there :shock: which is ok if it`s to see a load of other busses etc. No matter what mods you do to your bus, or keep it stock, you got to remember it`s a forty year old bus with the aerodynamics of a block of flats and the handling capabilities of a three legged dog with a thorn in his paw. Yes we can lower the suspension, yes we can fit coilovers, yes we can go red nine front end etc etc etc, but,,, in a straight line we`re good to go but last weekend was a big wakeup call / reminder to a lot of these bus peeps and that includes me, these busses don`t like wind gusts and driving back from Lincoln to Sunny Bristol :mrgreen: I was in real terms down to less than 45 mph on the motorway and even that was scary , hair raising, worrying, frightening, poo inducing, and possibly a little dangermouse as well :shock: So just be aware So just enjoy being in your bus, you`re not gonna surprise many boy racers with it speedwise, but you`re gonna win the cool stakes hands down, every single time. As far as engine choice, the debate could rage for years and probably will and for my two penneth get the best you can afford and think torque not revs.

Ozziedog ,,,,,,,,,,Enjoy the bus and the forum, there`s some really cool peeps on here and you `re now one of them !!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

opinion is split on here ,best for crusing motorways most would say 1776cc with good heads (ported)mild cam ,good exhaust and 2 single barrell carbs with a 6rib 2litre box.but a lot will say stock 1600 and box stay at 55/60 and get there later but more reliable(falacy that a built engine is not reliable)thing is a stock new motor comes in at 2k plus ,a built 1776 will cost 2.5 k in bits aprox and then you need to find or have built a gearbox.depends how large your wallet is!!and dont forget needs runing in for about 200 miles and then check over,all in 3weeks :shock: best of luck.hope you sort it for a cracking hols.

1176 with some sensible carbs and a six rib sounds good to me. Just got to remember not to bugger it all up by fitting alloys and low profile tyres as it'll reduce your rolling circumference and undo your hard work/investment.

Fair point about the engine too, an engine is only as good as the person maintaining & driving it! Seen a really strong sweet sounding 1800 Type four engine come back with the crank rattle of death due to the owners forgetting to keep an eye on the oil level. I think its a fair comment that if you go for something mental then it'll be more tempramental, you can't really drive a race spec motor on the street and have the same service intervals as a normal street motor.

1641 is something I'm still not sold on. An extra 43 (ish?) cc's spread over 4 cylinders. The BHP gain is minimal and will be un-noticeable. I think most people that rave about the power increase from a 1641 are noticing the difference in compression between their new B+Ps compaired to the knackered ones they were replacing. I don't like the idea of thinner cylinder walls either, VW developed things for a reason and if they felt 1600 was the right amount of bore to give a good compromise between power and reliabilty then that's good enough for me.

 

[terrier man]

Theres' a lot of sense being expressed here, I often think 1776/ big stroker I think Gearbox, I think Brakes then I think very exspensive, so I just cruz along at 60MPH while people pass me bye who often comment "nice van mate" while their kids smile & wave.
I had a Late Bay 15years back with Standard 1600TP late Gearbox & I often did 70mph on the motorway with no problems I did two trips all the way down to San-Jon-De-Luz South West France with no probs.
So if just 70 is your goal a 1600 with twin 34ict's and six ribber box will be more than capable for this, as for M.P.G in the Late Bay I was averaging 28-30 mpg on long runs & more or less the same with my present Bus, if your going to run twin Carbs' on long runs if your not too heavy footed you may get low to mid 30's but you will have to check with the guys who run them on here especially the Webber twin 34ICTS' as I know you can run them much leaner than the Stock Carb.
Hope this is helpful to you Bud.

 

[Trikky2]

As can be seen from the posts here there is no simple answer.

So much depends on how the owner wants to use the vehicle and with what load in which conditions. For instance, a lightly converted panel van with 2 people is quite different to drive compared to a full westy conversion with a family of four and all their holiday gear.

Then theres the "where". Driving around in the UK I never had much of a problem with the underpowered stock 1600. Only when I went on holiday to Europe did I suffer from causing tailbacks, particularly on long climbs, being forced back to third and often second on the steeper bits. Embarrassing.

The thing that made me decide to go for a more powerful engine in the end was fear.

Using the motorways in Spain, Italy and France I had several hair raising moments when huge trucks, doing around the legal limit, came up behind the bus on motorway hills not realising how slowly the bus was climbing. Several times there was panic braking and swerving on their part and often there was no hard shoulder either. Trucks have become a lot faster over the last 20 years or so.

The engine now fitted is, if I'm honest, too powerful at around 140 bhp. A 1776 producing around 90 bhp would have been perfectly adequate and were I to repeat the process thats what I would go for, mated to a 1.8 gearbox rather than the 2 liter box since the 2 liter has such a tall top gear that one is forced to use third in most areas with a 30mph (50kph) limit.

 

[andyh]

Plenty of food for thought there, thanks. I take the point about the various issues making 60 a more pleasant speed than 70 for long distances; one of the appeals of an older vehicle is that, like spending time on a canal boat, you have no option but to chill out and take life at a slower pace. (Although not quite so slow, or nearly so limited in where you can go...) However, I always hankered after a bigger engine in my 63 Beetle and suspect that the same will happen again, so I'm thinking along the lines of a recon tp 1600 on the stock 'box, mainly as it's a quick easy option. Now if I were to fit it with twin 34 ICTs and a sports exhaust, that should pep it up a bit, and those bits could transfer to a 1776 next winter. Add higher ratio gearbox at the same time and job done. I'll call a few people on Tuesday and investigate how realistic an approach this is; your experience welcome too of course.

That quite rightly means a brake upgrade so I'll probably get front discs fitted now - has anyone got any views on CSP vs the alternatives?

 

[terrier man]

Never thought of my bus as a Narrow Boat of the Highway but suppose it is, anyway I test drove one with a 1776 had twin Dell 36's nearly bought that one it was pretty quick around the block kicking out about 100bhp, just didn't like the rest of it,
looks like your considering your options Carbs,Exhaust,Brakes, if you still want to run your wide 5s' you should also consider futbus.com they do disc brake conversion kit's and are a bit cheaper than CSP some of the Chaps' here rate them.
Theres' alot to think about when your doin up your Bus even if you have a large budget it's a bloody mine-field I still get headaches' now. :lol:

 

[andyh]

Tell me about it!

Off to self-medicate with red wine now...

 

[Toad]

In a normal year I do 25k+ miles in my Early Bay. It has a totally standard 1600 single port engine.
It hauls all my gear and my kids/mates/cargo wherever we need to go with no problems.
It does what it was made to do....and IN STYLE!

 

[creationblue]

My experiance is this. My 1600SP with 34ITCs was a good little engine (54.5bhp on the dyno) that carried 5 of us and a Puck to Cornwall and back without any probs, but the lack of power was noticable, and cruising speed was around 55mph comfortably. Ive just done around 120miles in my new 1776 coupled with a 6rib box, the engine runs twin 40IDfs with ported heads, and its a blast, still taking it easy so not using full power but the motorway journey is a joy, 70mph no worries in fact i now have to lift off to keep the speed down, im more than happy with the settup. But like with everything in life quality does not come cheap, be carefull of cheap sounding engine specs that WILL cost you in the long run if they are'nt built well, do it once do it right! Good luck with what you choose.

Just

 

[andyh]

But like with everything in life quality does not come cheap, be carefull of cheap sounding engine specs that WILL cost you in the long run if they are'nt built well, do it once do it right! Good luck with what you choose.

Just

Cool, any pointers as to where to go?

I'm planning on talking to Funkenblitz, (assuming they're still active as the website is pretty out of date), as they're fairly close and were building some decent engines 5-6 years ago when I was last around VWs, but would be delighted to hear of other folks' experiences. PM me if you'd rather spare anyone's blushes, for either positive or negative reasons.

 

[creationblue]

But like with everything in life quality does not come cheap, be carefull of cheap sounding engine specs that WILL cost you in the long run if they are'nt built well, do it once do it right! Good luck with what you choose.

Just

Cool, any pointers as to where to go?

I'm planning on talking to Funkenblitz, (assuming they're still active as the website is pretty out of date), as they're fairly close and were building some decent engines 5-6 years ago when I was last around VWs, but would be delighted to hear of other folks' experiences. PM me if you'd rather spare anyone's blushes, for either positive or negative reasons.

I had Jason at Interpro Nr Bristol build mine, he has a reputaion for quality, tho just up the road for me probrably not practical for you, although piece of mind is worth travelling for.......really depends on your budget and what your expecting mate.

Just

 

[andyh]

Not too far away, I work between Swindon and Chippenham, I'll give him a call. As for budget, well there's a KTM 950 in the garage that's starting to look a little nervous...

 

[creationblue]

Not too far away, I work between Swindon and Chippenham, I'll give him a call. As for budget, well there's a KTM 950 in the garage that's starting to look a little nervous...

Lol my Aprilia Mille bit the dust too!
Jason will talk u thru the options without pushing u in any direction, but I would say spend as much as u can.

Just

 

[andyh]

The bay is just a little more family friendly!