Engine rebuild or buy a recon....

[froggy]

Just got back from Cornwall in the bay and think the engine now needs some work doing so i thought that as its nearly time to park up for winter i'd get a head start.
The Crankshaft oil seal is leaking oil straight onto the exhaust, the fuel pump gasket is weeping and there are various other little bits and peices none of them serious but as i now have another car the van can be taken off the road and played with! :wink:
So, i'm planning on stripping and rebuilding the engine, not sure yet whether to split the engine case or just rebuild the top end, it all depends on whether i can change the crank shaft oil seal without spliting the case? and whether there is to much end play. Anyway its currently a standard 1600 TP and i have been pricing up a top end kit (B&P, heads etc) and they come in around £300 for 1600 or £350 for 1641, is an extra 41cc worth £50?
Also if i split the case how much would i be looking at for new bearings etc (might aswell if i have it apart!)
Dont really have a budget in mind although a basic engine from The Engine Shop can be bought with nearly all the above done proffessionally for £550 so is it worth it, can i do it cheaper myself?

 

[Tofufi]

The Crankshaft oil seal is leaking oil straight onto the exhaust,

That sounds unusual - the exhaust doesn't (normally) go near the crankshaft oil seal. Sure it isn't the rocker cover gaskets or pushrod tubes that are leaking onto the heat exchangers?

whether i can change the crank shaft oil seal without spliting the case?

Yes, you can.

is an extra 41cc worth £50?

Probably not, you won't notice the extra power. Fitting twin carbs (over a single carb), or a bit of head work will probably give a greater change in performance.

 

[froggy]

The Crankshaft oil seal is leaking oil straight onto the exhaust,

That sounds unusual - the exhaust doesn't (normally) go near the crankshaft oil seal. Sure it isn't the rocker cover gaskets or pushrod tubes that are leaking onto the heat exchangers?

whether i can change the crank shaft oil seal without spliting the case?

Yes, you can.

Cheers, the crankshaft oil seal is throwing oil onto the tin wear and the oil is then dripping onto the silencer (i hope anyway). The problem was that when going up hill the oil was dripping onto the exhaust and burning off, thought i was james bond with a clever switch to blind the people behind me! :lol:

 

[Tofufi]

You mean the end of the engine at the rear of the bus?

That end doesn't have a seal afaik...

 

[froggy]

Oh, well that were it appears to be leaking from, maybe the oil pump then?

 

[Clarkson46]

Until you have the engine out and stripped it is difficult to say what you will need to rebuild it. Just re-doing the top end without doing the crankshaft etc is false economy. Why new barrels and pistons? Why new heads? Why not just new piston rings and new valves, much cheaper if that is all that is needed. The quality of new heads is a far cry from well used German heads, if they ain't cracked by now they ain't going to.

 

[cyberdyne systems]

i have been pricing up a top end kit (B&P, heads etc) and they come in around £300 for 1600 or £350 for 1641, is an extra 41cc worth £50?

Its actually 57cc, as the '1600' is actually 1584cc, there is an article about doing this I think in the new Camper & Bus mag. It says you will notice a difference but doesn't say any more than that.

I think any increase has to be a good thing, obviously its better if you do a cam, the heads and carbs and exhaust along with it.

Gareth

 

[froggy]

Until you have the engine out and stripped it is difficult to say what you will need to rebuild it. Just re-doing the top end without doing the crankshaft etc is false economy. Why new barrels and pistons? Why new heads? Why not just new piston rings and new valves, much cheaper if that is all that is needed. The quality of new heads is a far cry from well used German heads, if they ain't cracked by now they ain't going to.

Your right i really need to remove and strip before making (expensive) assumptions, the engine (providing its OG and i beleive it is) has clocked up 112000 miles, maybe im just panic'ing a bit.
Where is the best place to buy the engine parts from? Heritage? Cool air? or are there any engine specialist places around?
Need to do some more intensive looking, just got back from Cornwall and think i might be panic spending!

 

[james_stan]

GSF for valves. Rockers should be OK to reuse unless you can
feel some wear on the shaft.

BTW I didn't feel much difference on going from a 1600 SP to a 1776 TP
witha C25 CAM and 32/36 Weber :roll: . Could still be a problem
with the carb linkage but even so..

Good luck

James

 

[froggy]

Cheers, luckily GSF is next door to Kingfishers (which is where i normally buy my parts) so will start looking there

 

[Joval]

I'd do a compression test before shelling out for parts. Then re-torque the heads and do it again - is it just a little leaky?

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

i have been pricing up a top end kit (B&P, heads etc) and they come in around £300 for 1600 or £350 for 1641, is an extra 41cc worth £50?

Its actually 57cc, as the '1600' is actually 1584cc, there is an article about doing this I think in the new Camper & Bus mag. It says you will notice a difference but doesn't say any more than that.
I think any increase has to be a good thing, obviously its better if you do a cam, the heads and carbs and exhaust along with it.
Gareth

And you'll notice 57cc over 4 cylinders? I think not. What most people notice is the difference in compression from their old kippered B+Ps to brand new ones.

Further more 1641 and 1679 use the same cylinders as 1600, so the walls are thinner to allow for the larger bore which means they run hotter.
So they really aren't worth bothering with, so I'd say keep it stock or do it properly and go 1776.

 

[Joval]

Yep, that ^^ sounds about right to me - mine is down around 110lbs on all four cylinders and runs out of steam on long hills.

 

[Bay-low71]

In the process of rebuilding mine, I was going done exactly the same route 1600cc to 1641cc, however spoke to friends and people in the know and decided to go down the 1776cc route. There are however other things to think of even if you going to 1641, higher compression ratio from new barrels and pistons, is your crank o.k.
On stripdown mine was 0.040" or 1mm down n.b ground twice usually 0.5mm steps or had one big grind due to damage, who knows.
Your heads, mine were cracked between inlet and exhaust on 1 and 3, as you can now see the can of worms are now fully open if not overflowing.

looking back I should of bought an entire kit, volkstroker or racer depending on budget entirely up to you. 1776cc machining and crankcase rebuild, I stripped down engineering firm machined and rebuilt with new crank and cam costing £352 which I thought was very good, now its down to me to fit the barrels, pistons head carbs etc...

I can't stress enough do your research its worth it in the end, mine will be done for the 2012 olympics......ha ha

 

[froggy]

Think the 1st thing im going to do is get a compression tester, check all the readings and then re-tighten the heads and recheck then if any are down i'll look into either new B&P or a complete top end (depending on the head condition).
Either way i think i'm gonna strip the engine down and replace all the seals / gaskets etc that come in the kits you can get.

 

[slowboy]

Your oil leak might be coming from behind the crankshaft pulley, caused by a blocked breather on the oil filler. Sometimes aftermarket crankshaft pulleys can also cause this because the poorly machined oil thrower on the back of the pulley fails to hold the oil in the crakcase. If you don't already have one, fit a standard VW pulley and give it a try before spending loads of money.

 

[froggy]

Oil leak is coming from the bottom of the dynamo pedastal, when we swapped the carb neither me or my maye remember putting a gasket on! :x

Just done a quick compression test on number 3 cylinder and only getting about 85PSI, looks like the engines got to come out and be stripped. Will check all the other cylinders when the battery is charged up.

 

[Joval]

Reset the tappets, re-torque the heads and do the compression test again (throttle open) on all 4 cylinders.

 

[froggy]

Managed to do a full compression test and got an average of 100 PSI on No.1 & 2 but 3 & 4 both around 85 - 90 PSI.
What would you do with this sort of in-balance?

 

[Joval]

That's not huge imbalance - mine was 1-115 2-115 3-90 4-102

Re-torqued the left head and now all are in around 115 +/-2