Fire in engine.

[Dreadybird]

Hi there hoping to provoke some discussion /ideas about the cause of and prevention of fire in the engine. After spending a year on the complete restoration of our 1970 T2 she went up in smoke when driving a couple of miles across town. To say we are gutted is an understament. The police advised that this was the third campervan fire they have been called to in a month. Now am talking to people it seems to be a common problem. Any ideas on what could have caused it and hope we might prevent any more of our beloved earlybays going up in smoke?

 

[dave_garnz]

I'm pretty new to the aircooled stuff.

A split went up near us fairly recently and I think it was said that a perished fuel line was the cause of it.

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

Knackered fuel lines and people fitting plastic in line fuel filters in the engine bay.

Many of the "air cooled specialist" suppliers sell the fuel line with the cotton braiding. This is dangerous stuff as it can look fine on the outside but the rubber can be perished underneath. The best fuel line to fit is the stuff that'll be supplied by a local motor factor. Replacing fuel lines should be a routene service item anyway, once every two years is what I tend to do.

In line fuel filters should be fitted underneath the van, where the fuel pipe comes out the tank is the best place. If it fails you get a puddle on the floor, however if its in the engine bay it can dump fuel on the hot carb pre heaters, the exhaust manifold, the dizzy etc

Another cause can be badly routed fuel lines, letting them rest on the carb preheats etc

Badly installed wiring can cause fires too.

It's a case of operator error rather than it being a common problem. Much the same that they have a reputation for breaking down from people not bothering to service them often enough or believing the "you can drive them flat out all day long" crap.

Do you have any photos of your engine bay before the fire?

 

[lynn71]

like ProfessorWheeto said its piss poor maintenance or jus pure ignorance plus im sorry for bein mean about this but its called a FIRE EXTINGUISHER!! they conveniently fit behind the front seats quite nicely!!

you could have saved you beloved bus by taking out a $30 insurance policy (the fire extinguisher!)

 

[ZedBed]

That's a bit harsh Lynn!

It's possible to get a burnable leak even if you float in the carb gets jammed open - I've seen petrol fairly peeing out of worn spindles in this case. Sometimes the unexpected can get you.

I'm paranoid and use marine grade hose. It's a bit more expensive, but still cheap as chips compared to a fire.

Very sorry to hear of your tradgedy DreadyBird.

If anyone wants to read advice from a fireman who has successfully doused an engine fire in his own van, pop over to JK and read Oilybay's sticky.

 

[lynn71]

naa i dont think its harsh at all my bus suffered an engine fire when the brass fitting popped out of the carb on the previous owner lucky enough he was at a petrol station (jus leaving not by the pump) an there was fire extinguishers around my lynn was saved!!

but im not a meanie im am very sorry to hear of anyone loosin their bus i would hate it to happen to me

 

[Gadget Boy]

Sorry to hear your bad news as others have said , changing fuel lines is a prevention . I actually change my fuel lines every 12 months . It costs a tenner if that . I change them even if they dont need it, as Im paranoid as hell about it :shock:

 

[lhu128l]

I don`t think there is the need to change them that often , how many new cars have their fuel lines changed ever year or ten ?

 

[AGC]

Firetek or similar system is good insurance imo

 

[K@rlos]

My way is check them regularly and change if they need it. I'm like Gadget, paranoid

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

It's possible to get a burnable leak even if you float in the carb gets jammed open - I've seen petrol fairly peeing out of worn spindles in this case. Sometimes the unexpected can get you.

Ah forgot about this, leaky spindles does make it stink of fuel though although again there is a worrying amount of people that are of the opinion "oh it smells like fuel cause its old" and wouldn't think to check the throttle spindle or drop the engine and renew the fuel tank breather pipe

like ProfessorWheeto said its piss poor maintenance or jus pure ignorance plus im sorry for bein mean about this but its called a FIRE EXTINGUISHER!! they conveniently fit behind the front seats quite nicely!!

you could have saved you beloved bus by taking out a $30 insurance policy (the fire extinguisher!)

Fire extinguisher is another good point, I've got a couple sitting behind my drivers seat, if you do have a camper (especially with a cooker inside that you use) it's a wise idea to have one easily accessible from the back too, it would be a bugger if you torch your van due to a fry up related mishap.

 

[ZedBed]

A fire extinguisher is good - if you know how to use it.

I pinched this from another site. Oilybay is a firemen. He was asked to write this after we found out his bus engine bay had caught fire as he drove along, and he'd put it out with minimal damage. It's all very well saying "if it catches fire run for it", but personally I'd rather have a go...

Oilybay's guide to fires.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok So we've had a few fires on here, I know how gut-wrenching it is when it happens trust me so here are a few tips.

1) Don't panic, you will lose track of time and spend a vital 30 seconds thinking about things you perhaps don't need to.

2) It will most likely happen whilst you are driving, as soon as you detect a loss of power or hear something not right, get the indicator on and start pulling over people will get out of the way, tell everyone to get their seatbelts off and get ready to get out. Do not drive with your side door locked if there are people in the back.

3) Have your extinguisher handy. At about 15 mph pull on the handbrake.

4) As the vehicle comes to a stop switch off your engine, get your hazards on and ensure everyone is out and send them away Get one of your passengers to call the fire service and let them know if you have a gas cylinder on board. Don’t think about your ipod etc. Your van is unlikely to explode for a while yet so if you feel up to it it’s time to get in there.

5) If you have a locking engine lid it’s always wise to drive with it unlocked.

6) Pop the engine lid so that the bottom of the hatch is just a couple of inches open and pop a quick squib of dry powder up into the roof of the engine bay. This will knock down the flames and enable you to see what’s actually on fire, you can then open the lid proper.

7) Main culprits are the fuel pump, carb, fuel lines, gas cylinder hoses, batteries, oily deposits on the engine and engine bay roof lining. If your gas hose is alight a little squib should put it out, once out turn off the gas, the regulator will only allow a little gas through and the cylinders are very robust. Following this, hit the other seats of fire starting with the biggest, each time with little squibs of the extinguisher. Dry powder is an excellent extinguishing media, you really don’t need much to make it work and you want some left for the next job.

8) Have a look underneath to see if your fuel line is alight and aim the powder at any seats of fire that may be underneath. If you can see fuel leaking out try to block the fuel line with mud, a biro, mole grips anything you can find. (I have epoxy putty in the glove box, you can get it from B&Q in a little 6 pack.)

9) go back and check all the other seats of fire are extinguished, if you are unable to put it out, you and your passengers should get about 50 metres away and look away no-one wants to watch their van burn.

10) If you have cracked it, the work isn’t over yet, you need to disconnect the battery, ensure the fuel supply is isolated and monitor all the hot spots until help arrives.

11) DO NOT try and repair it and carry on your journey, there is no telling what hidden damage has been done.

12) take pictures for insurance purposes and to get lots of sympathy from your fellow VW owners.

It’s a horrible business but it is possible to minimise the damage if you can start to knock down the flames in the first 30 seconds.

The regular comments about fuel lines, fireflex etc are good practice, don’t ever think it won’t happen to you (I did).

If I’ve forgotten anything, please feel free to add, I’m not proud.

With love. Oilybay.

 

[Dreadybird]

Back online after a long busless gap and lots of searching. The engine had been completely refurbed with new fuel lines and we had a good quality fire extinguisher which we used. Despite jumping out and turning off the ignition the fire appeared to be well fed by fuel.
Family post mortem decided that it may have been the new fuel pump running at too high a pressure ? May try and post pics of engine in future. Am happy again as have found a new love a 69 Devon umm this has three in line fuel filters in the engine bay and is not yet MOTed. Yes I will be getting them removed and having an in line fuel cut off fitted. If you see a bus with a GIANT fire extinguished on the roof it will probably be me

 

[Geeze]

my bus suffered an engine fire when the brass fitting popped out of the carb

have heard of that happening a few times now on original carbs. Some people are safety wiring their pipe onto the carb body as a result:

 

[crede999]

Krusty and myself have seen first hand how fast a fire can get going while boarding the Chunnel going to ninove last week .....30 seconds and it's coming out the vents :shock: both Krusty and I jumped out with our fire little car fire extinguishers and to be honest it would of done bugger all ! Luckerly the guy in the spilties mate jumped out with a big school type and it was out in seconds ! So I'm ditching my little one and getting a big one ( so to speak ! ) seriously gave both of us food for thought when you see it happening , we were only 50 yards from the train on the ramp down to board it but for the big extinguisher it could of been a lot worse

Chris

 

[BJ1]

my bus suffered an engine fire when the brass fitting popped out of the carb

have heard of that happening a few times now on original carbs. Some people are safety wiring their pipe onto the carb body as a result:

IMO, doing this is essential. Solex just push fitted the inlet pipes into the float chamber top.

I sometimes 'amuse' people at shows by pulling these pipes out of carbs for sale on tat stalls. It's surprising how many come out with a sharp pull on the rubber nose. I think 40 years of engine vibration loosens them. I've seen two engine fires caused by this.

crede999's advice on extinguishers is spot on. Big is best - the small powder type will not put out an engine fire.

 

[Termite]

Hi

What sort of wire is that that has been used to safety wire the pipe? I would never have thought of doing that.

Cheers,
Termite

 

[Mr Brightside]

Hi

What sort of wire is that that has been used to safety wire the pipe? I would never have thought of doing that.

Cheers,
Termite

Its Lock wire, available from lots of places, used in motorsport & all sorts of other applications.

Here

G

 

[krusty]

Chris is spot on with the big fire extinguisher, and after seeing a bus with flames coming out of it I have already started to replace all my fuel lines and there will NOT be a fuel filter in my engine bay!

 

[Termite]

Thanks. I will keep an eye out.