Heads, things to be aware of

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jonboylaw

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Ok guys, as you may know I have been tinkering with heads over the past little while to try and make sense of what is needed for a bus vs what is available on the market. The following are my findings based upon my measurements with my home made flow bench with my modifications. It is valid for the heads I measured and modified and will apply to the majority of after market heads out there.

So here we go.

What does a bus engine need to deliver? In simple terms the vast majority of owners are looking for an engine that will pull cleanly, drag a fully loaded bus up hills and cruise along at 60 - 70 all day long.
In reality this equates to torque in an engine, the ability to pull you, your family and all the gear up hills without having to drop down to second gear.

How to you maximise torque? Well this is by getting the maximum fuel/air mixture into the cylinder across all revs, or in engine terms, maximising volumetric efficiency.

How do you go about achieving this?
Add a supercharger (including turbo) or for NA you need to maximise airflow into the cylinder.

How do you maximise inlet airflow?
Just stick big valve heads on ! - well not really. As you can see from the following, just upping the valve sizes can be detrimental as you run into shrouding issues, especially at low lift.
This plot shows a stock 043 head vs an AA 40x35.5 head (both standard bore).

7baf05456e9047d5bf7242b4250f501b.jpg


Things look pretty impressive until you analyse the curve, here you will see that the big valve head actually flows LESS than the 043 at low valve lift.
You may say that this does not matter as the high lift gains are big. In a bug or a racer then this is fine, but a bus is going to be terrible to drive. Also remember that the average valve lift is a lot less than your max lift which I will come on to later.

If we take the 043s and modify them we can get a pretty decent result as seen below:

e974e619ec4df795d50f4dfdab2d1f49.jpg


This shows a stock 043 that has had a decent valve job and some flowing of the intake ports.

A very important goal to remember at this stage is that at low rpm, the gas speed drops off, which kills the volumetric efficiency. For a torquey bus motor, you need the highest gas speed at low RPM. It is no good having all your torque over 4000rpm, you would go through clutch plates like nobodies business. The key to gas speed is port area, if you make the ports big to get high flow, you kill the gas speed at low rpm.
The vast majority of after market heads are basically over ported for a bus application. Big valves and big ports needs big revs to make them work.

So how do we maximise the flow, keep gas speed for the best response in a bus.

I looked at the "big valve" head and noticed that there were some significant gains to be made without having to open up the ports.
With some un-shrouding of the valve, 3 angled seat, valve reshape and minor flow work we can actually get some decent results.

724a12acef6ea25c760d09de2cf1afbe.jpg


Now remember what I said about cam lift earlier. The important factor to remember is the average cam lift, not just the max lift or duration. This gives the effective lift of the cam and when you play this against the flow of the head you can see that having a big cam in a stock head will not make much power difference, similarly, a stock cam in a good head is not the best use of your cash either.

19c56056deca4728bea8e6c2b05f045b.jpg


So my conclusions are that to get the best from a bus engine, you need to balance flow for gas speed and select a cam that gives you a decent average lift but with short overlap. Stock big valve heads are inherently not the best for a bus motor.

If anyone has some other big valve heads they are willing to loan me I would be very interested to put them on my flow bench and see what they can really do.

Cheers,
Jon


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Heads can give a big plus to an engine,a good 1776 with stock heads can give 100 HP,it all comes down to cost.
 
My point is that for a bus motor you need torque. 1776 and 100bhp will be at high revs. Even then I am doubtful of a totally stock head being capable of flowing enough for 100bhp at any RPM.


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Jon

I believe you're on the money with this, and like the analytical approach. Carbs and ports need to be small to keep velocity up at lower revs - and not a law of physics that applies to only old air-cooled motors either. Build a really big engine and put in a light vehicle then we might not notice the point your making, but from a value perspective your approach is the right one....
 
I've put a lot of thought and time into this analysis, I even built a flow bench so I could quantify any gains or losses made when modifying the heads. What I have found is that with a bit of work, you can make stock or small port big valve heads work, but the key to it is sorting out the valve/seat and shrouding areas of the head, not gouging out the ports as per most aftermarket heads do.
I would certainly think twice about fitting big valve heads or some trick race heads on a bus motor as you are not balancing the system. For a stock engine, your best bet is to have your heads modified or if you need new heads then buy ones that are designed for your application. If you are building a 1776 or bigger then you should consider head choice as primary importance and mate this to the cam selection to give an engine with the characteristics you need in a bus.

I'm sure there will be a lot of comments about great success with big heads etc, but is that really the case or just putting up with the flaws and having a binary power band?
 
Nice work Jon. Everything you say here is technical yet made easy to understand. Thanks!

So in your opinion do you think a 40x35 big valve head is going to play nicely in the low band with say an Engle 100 cam profile and 1.25:1 rockers for a bus motor assuming the carbs can suck enough volume of air?

I'd be very interested to know how the Stateside Tuning Magnum style heads perform for bus duties.37.5 x 33, mild port and three angle valve job;

http://statesidetuning.com/offersother.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Could this be the happy medium between high gas speed and improving flow over a stock head? Maybe ask them if you can test a pair out?

Cheers,

Pete
 
Pete,
It is very difficult to say without flowing them and I doubt if they would loan me one.
I can only really go by what I see from my mods on my heads. I'm sure I could offer a 40mm inlet head with mods significantly cheaper than £465, including all that is on the stateside, with port flowing included.

40x35 should, if done correctly flow just as well, if not a little better at low lift, so long as care is taken in the port and seat area and unshrouding. The bonus is that the 40mm will not restrict the cam at the higher lift. A W100 is something like .266" average lift on 1:1.25.

I have a small stock of 85.5 and 90.5/92s heads that I will prep up if there is interest.


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Following on from my post, below are plot results for a stock big valve AA head and then the results after modification.
The aim of the mods were to get the heads flowing at low valve lift where the majority of the cam lift is. This will promote torque and is where you want to focus on for a bus motor. The ports were flowed to make them smoother and remove some restrictions but they were not opened up. This restricts the max flow but keeps velocity high, so should work very nicely up to say 5000 RPM but will restrict over this (still flow a lot more than stock)

Results:

My flow bench:
2f431fc79adfe0d3f0cfb29395d3fd55.jpg


MAF sensor to measure Kg/h air flow
1cbb241ec3968f5f7c8a1f7fadfeb9d5.jpg


Twin motor speed control for the vac pumps:
799b668d765a778396b0205ad0cc62ac.jpg


Modified chambers to unshroud inlet valves:
6cb02ba5f95da6a89b92102545100f1e.jpg


4 angled seat and port flowed inlet.
ddb4572d53fd1e4a6f5983a8b38cd4e9.jpg


Flow results:
Stock AA vs my AA
40eb25cc53b6fd2283664ad2fdbe5579.jpg


% gains:
d8bf253f358de610620f19bc4d66f614.jpg


Conclusion:
With a bit of effort you can make significant gains over the stock design. This is right across the low valve opening area so ideal for a bus motor. 30% extra flow is a significant benefit at the low lift and I also get 10% more st the top end.

The valve seat is critical to getting these engines flowing well and unshrouding the valves is vital.

Jon


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Looking good Jon, have a look at Revmaster heads, mike Ballard does his 'e chambers, look nice.i will try some out soon.
 
Much respect to your research mate. :mrgreen:

When I was building my 2110 I tried to meet in the middle with torque and top end horsepower. My motor is a 2110 stroker, Engle FK8 cam, 1.4:1 rockers, Weber 48 IDF's on ported CSP manifolds match ported to 049 rev master heads with 40x35.5 valves which were meticulously hand ported & de shrouded. It makes 165hp & 171 ib ft of torque, the torque comes in at about 2000 rpm then comes onto cam at 3500 rpm and pulls hard to 7000 rpm. It suits my driving style and is a bit more on the screamer side of things which is fair to say it wouldn't suit many as a bus motor.

However on the other hand, I did a great deal of work on a good friends '54 barndoor with a 1955 'stump puller' motor. It had a Scat C25 cam 1:1 rockers, worked stock valve heads & Dell'orto 40 DRLA's. I believe it made 97 hp and revved out at about 5200 rpm but the bottom end grunt from idle was incredible! If I'm honest it was a nicer drive through town than mine. It didn't go as hard as mine and wasn't as much 'fun' but I'd have been happy to have that as a daily.
 
jonboylaw said:
Yeah, power bands make for fun driving but as you say, it gets tiresome in a van and when lugging a full van up a steep hill.
That stump puller engine spec looks to be decent for a van.



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Going up steep hills isn't really the issue tbh, it storms up them. It's just a bit on the snappy side when crawling in traffic. That is tiresome :lol:
 
Hi Jon

My bus is still laid up and so I haven't progressed any megajolt or bus mods.
If I get it back to mine and I do drop the engine, there might be an opp for me to send one of my heads up for the 'bench'

they are G03 DRD medium valve heads, I had a 3valve cut and also cleaned things up a little - bus ran really well from low down and I desperately want to get datalogging on it

have you progressed to full FI yet?

D
 
Would be good to flow test your head. My engine is out at the moment as I am prepping some heads for it and painting the engine bay. Should have it back in soon and the MJ wiring tidied up a bit.


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Hi Jon,
I'm new to the forum and have been reading your posts with interest. I'm exploring options to increase torque to help with hills. I'm about to pull my engine to sort some oil leaks and am looking at getting some head work done. Are you actively taking orders for this work?
I was going to pm you but I don't think I'm able yet - this is my first post...only had the bus 5.5 yrs!
Many thanks
Dave
 
Hi Dave. I’ll p.m. him for you, however, this thread is nearly two years ago and I haven’t heard that much from him recently. He may just be really bizzy. I’ll send him a message and we can see what happens. :p

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,And a big welcome to you too, glad you posted :mrgreen:
 

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