Help, Betty Wont start!!!!

[Scutch]

Help Again Please!!
Bus wont start, I'm getting a spark from the coil to dizzy but nothing down to the plugs. I can set the static timing and that's bang on, as soon as i turn it over... nothing! The dizzy cap points and condenser and Rotar arm and HT Leads are only about 5 months old and still look in decent condition. Shall i just replace all of these anyway?

If i take the Coil HT Lead out of the dizzy, put the points in the closed position with the cap off. turn the ignition on prise the points open whilst holding the Ht lead near the block i get a spark from the coil HT lead and the points gap is that supposed to happen?

Its been 2 days i've checked everything dont know what else to do :? driving me mad..... If anyone is in the Romford, Essex area and dont mind coming to help and have a look that would be fantastic!!!

Thank EB'ers
Lee

 

[bigdaz]

Could be a faulty dizzycap or rotor arm even condenser
Unfortunately these parts can be of varying quality and do
I cary a spsre distributor all set up ready to swap.

Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[jimbo4861]

lee
did i see you drive past mine the other night? i am in Mawney road my bus was not on the drive as away getting alternator conversion but if i can be of help give me a knock or pm me and i give you my moby

Jimbo

 

[Scutch]

Could be a faulty dizzycap or rotor arm even condenser
Unfortunately these parts can be of varying quality and do
I cary a spsre distributor all set up ready to swap.

Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk 2

Hi mate, yeah changed Coil, Dizzycap, rotar, points, condenser, HT Leads, Plugs...................... still nothing!

spark from the coil to dizzy and a very faint spark at the points but nothing coming out and down to the plugs, timing is bang on checked all wires in and around it...... still nothing!
Even the AA man couldn't sort it!?!?!

really puzzled!!!! :?

 

[Scutch]

lee
did i see you drive past mine the other night? i am in Mawney road my bus was not on the drive as away getting alternator conversion but if i can be of help give me a knock or pm me and i give you my moby

Jimbo

Hi Jim, yeah i drove past on Monday i think it was, Thats the last time i drove her... next day she didn't want to start. I noticed your bus wasn't there!
I was supposed to go Volksworld today for the weekend... not no more!

Always handy to know mate, you'll wish you never said give us a knock haha :lol:

 

[70-CA-Panel]

Hey man,

Its been years since I worked on my bus... Have you checked that the nipple in the centre of the inside of the cap is still there and is being pushed by the spring behind it?

There should only be a pretty weak spark at the points. With the cap clamped down on the dizzy remove one lead to a spark plug and hold just off some metal, should get a spark arcing across to the metal when it is the sparkplugs turn (1-4-3-2).
Do you have spare cap and sparkplug leads you could try?
What colour is the spark from the coil to the dizzy when you nearly ground this lead? If orange then coil may be too weak, if blue it'll be good.
Have you also looked at the sparkplugs themselves? Checked that fuel is being pumped?

Seeing that you get a spark from coil to points but no further seems to be either the cap or leads...
That's it for now, hope someone else has answers.

Good luck

Andy

 

[Scutch]

Hey man,

Its been years since I worked on my bus... Have you checked that the nipple in the centre of the inside of the cap is still there and is being pushed by the spring behind it?

There should only be a pretty weak spark at the points. With the cap clamped down on the dizzy remove one lead to a spark plug and hold just off some metal, should get a spark arcing across to the metal when it is the sparkplugs turn (1-4-3-2).
Do you have spare cap and sparkplug leads you could try?
What colour is the spark from the coil to the dizzy when you nearly ground this lead? If orange then coil may be too weak, if blue it'll be good.
Have you also looked at the sparkplugs themselves? Checked that fuel is being pumped?

Seeing that you get a spark from coil to points but no further seems to be either the cap or leads...
That's it for now, hope someone else has answers.


Good luck

Andy

Cheers for the reply and help Andy!

The cap is fine and brand new and the old one that was on there was in great condition, tried my mates off of his bus to! Ive tried holding the HT leads away from the engine With and Without plugs but theres nothing there??? The colour of the spark is blue. its all in the correct firing order, tried 3 different Rotors in it (one's Brand new) 2 different coils.... Still nothing!!!

I think the dizzy is earthing somewhere when i put the cap on, or its pushing something somewhere!

My mate has buses and he's puzzeld, the AA man was Puzzeld, My other mate who has classic cars was puzzeld...... none of us can see the fault?!?

 

[70-CA-Panel]

Damn!!

Looks like you checked just about everything...
Can you try one of your mates dizzies? That would be the only way to see if that's at fault now. Is the dizzy spindle turning when you hand turn turn the crank?

So far it must be the dizzy?...

Let us know how you're cgetting along, eh.

 

[Scutch]

Damn!!

Looks like you checked just about everything...
Can you try one of your mates dizzies? That would be the only way to see if that's at fault now. Is the dizzy spindle turning when you hand turn turn the crank?

So far it must be the dizzy?...

Let us know how you're cgetting along, eh.

Yep, spins fine and the points open and close. Yeah I'm thinking it could be the dizzy, it's a 009 and I've read that they are pretty shit!
Can I put a vacuum dizzy on a 1641cc? if I can do you know what one it is??

 

[mattyd72]

Are you sure the 009 is wired right?

Aren't they 180degrees out from a stock dizzy.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[70-CA-Panel]

Are you sure the 009 is wired right?

Aren't they 180degrees out from a stock dizzy.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

I have a 009 and mine isn't 180deg out... but then again everybody says they are different.
I must have got a good one.

Yes you can have a vacuum dizzy on a 1641, at lease mine had one before I changed it to a 009.
you will need to have the vacuum canister (round thing on the dizzy) and connection hoses to the carb.
Its been ages since i seen that set up on my bus, but sure some of the buldthreads will have pics of it.
I guess you'll need to get one used, so wont be able to tell the condition.

Try one of your mates dizzies first though.

A

 

[Doris]

is the earthing plate in place inside the dissy?

a plastic disc with a notch in it.The notch sits in the notch in the dissy body next to no.1 cylinder lead position.It goes under the rotor arm & it sits on top of the points,the rotor pops through it..... just a thought as they are often missing.

 

[70-CA-Panel]

^ Good point, never knew they were called earthing plates...
Going by the name that might be the grounding problem...

 

[Scutch]

is the earthing plate in place inside the dissy?

a plastic disc with a notch in it.The notch sits in the notch in the dissy body next to no.1 cylinder lead position.It goes under the rotor arm & it sits on top of the points,the rotor pops through it..... just a thought as they are often missing.

Do you mean this........

http://m.vwheritage.com/productDetails.cfm?iItemID=198300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you do, then no it hasn't got one. Didn't know it was that important!

 

[Doris]

is the earthing plate in place inside the dissy?

a plastic disc with a notch in it.The notch sits in the notch in the dissy body next to no.1 cylinder lead position.It goes under the rotor arm & it sits on top of the points,the rotor pops through it..... just a thought as they are often missing.

Do you mean this........

http://m.vwheritage.com/productDetails.cfm?iItemID=198300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you do, then no it hasn't got one. Didn't know it was that important!

Yeah that's the rascal! I didn't know they were refered to as dust covers :lol: I've always known them as the earthing cover thingie to stop rougue sparks... but happy to be corrected?! worth a few punt for a few quid.

watching with interest

 

[Scutch]

is the earthing plate in place inside the dissy?

a plastic disc with a notch in it.The notch sits in the notch in the dissy body next to no.1 cylinder lead position.It goes under the rotor arm & it sits on top of the points,the rotor pops through it..... just a thought as they are often missing.

Do you mean this........

http://m.vwheritage.com/productDetails.cfm?iItemID=198300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you do, then no it hasn't got one. Didn't know it was that important!

Yeah that's the rascal! I didn't know they were refered to as dust covers :lol: I've always known them as the earthing cover thingie to stop rougue sparks... but happy to be corrected?! worth a few punt for a few quid.

watching with interest

Think I'll order one of them Earthing cover thingies then haha it's got to help with something!!! I'm open to any hints,tips and tricks! I've tried EVERYTHING in the Haynes and what I've read on the web!!!

Thanks mate

 

[BJ1]

It's not an "earthing plate" just a dust cover and isn't needed at all so don't waste your time and money. Check that you have an intact earth lead between the dizzy base plate and the body. It's a small braided lead that is welded to the base plate and connects to the body at the other end by a screw. They are often either broken or badly corroded. You won't get a spark if it is broken. Also worth checking that your points are clean - some come with a coating that needs cleaning off.

 

[Scutch]

Thanks for the help lads!

What I have noticed while speaking to people is that the rotor arm should be facing No1 spark plug when at TCD.
My one face's the crank when at TDC with the No1 piston right up!
Should it be facing No1 spark plug?

 

[BJ1]

Thanks for the help lads!

What I have noticed while speaking to people is that the rotor arm should be facing No1 spark plug when at TCD.
My one face's the crank when at TDC with the No1 piston right up!
Should it be facing No1 spark plug?

Err - no. Whoever told you that is dazed and confused.
You want the rotor arm position when the piston on No1 cylinder is at TDC on the firing stroke - that is when both valves are slack. The arm will either point towards the crank pulley or towards the lh corner of the van, depending on which dizzy you have. Either way you turn the dizzy so the notch lines up with the centre of the rotor arm. That will be where the No 1 lead comes out of the cap. Then No 4, No3 and No 2 clockwise. Once you have the leads in place then the engine will run. You can time it properly with a gun from there. All this is explained in Haynes and Bentley manuals so go and buy or borrow one.

 

[Scutch]

Thanks for the help lads!

What I have noticed while speaking to people is that the rotor arm should be facing No1 spark plug when at TCD.
My one face's the crank when at TDC with the No1 piston right up!
Should it be facing No1 spark plug?

Err - no. Whoever told you that is dazed and confused.
You want the rotor arm position when the piston on No1 cylinder is at TDC on the firing stroke - that is when both valves are slack. The arm will either point towards the crank pulley or towards the lh corner of the van, depending on which dizzy you have. Either way you turn the dizzy so the notch lines up with the centre of the rotor arm. That will be where the No 1 lead comes out of the cap. Then No 4, No3 and No 2 clockwise. Once you have the leads in place then the engine will run. You can time it properly with a gun from there. All this is explained in Haynes and Bentley manuals so go and buy or borrow one.

Cheers BayTripper

This is what iv been trying to tell them and one even has a Beetle (dont know if they are different) I downloaded a copy of Haynes manual and i was trying to get it through to my numpty mates!!!! I just wanted to double check with you fellow Bay owners as you talk a little bit more sense than them :lol: