horn problems!!

[lozp]

Hi guys please help me as i am sure my neighbours are getting sick of the sound of my horn

i am trying to fix the horn on my new 69 bay window that i got the other week

i have searched the forurms and managed to connect the horn up and i think i get how it works. when i turn the ignition on the horn sounds i have cleaned contacts and still the same i started looking and poking arrround and have narrowed it down to a short i think between the steering coloum and the ground. as when i unbolt the black thing that holds the steering coloum and pull it off the floor a bit the horn works ok.

how do i fix this problem?? is it the plastic ring that has broken? could i put insulation tape under the black box thingiy to isolate it from the rest of the van??

please help me

 

[55ovalcharlie]

Is the outer steering column touching metal where it passes through the ignition barrel housing bit? I.e if you look at underneath where your ignition key is, where the column emerges back into the open air. If that bit is touching the column then the horn will sound. The column might just be a bit out of alignment.

 

[gvee]

Sounds to me like you need to replace the steering column bush. It is surprisingly important in getting your horn to work correctly!

This is the bit I'm referring to: http://www.justkampers.com/shop/steering-column-bush-j13525.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously you can pick this bit up from the other major parts suppliers too

 

[Buss69]

OR, is it the cable that runs down the centre of the column? If it has been chaffing over the years, especially at the bottom it could be shorting there.

 

[toxicbug66]

I had exactly the same issue.

If you have a bentley manual there are a few good pictures of how the wires at the bottom of the column should be. Make sure the wire that goes down the inside of the column is connected to the correct bolt and the wire connected to the outer column is right too. If they are the wrong way round that would sound the horn all the time. Also make sure the horn is isolated electrically from the body. It should have a rubber mount.

Richard.

 

[lozpeters]

Coolio I will check all of that advise out when I get home from work today. Just to help me out does anyone have any pictures of what it should look like?? (as none of the wires were connected I am assuming I have wired it up right!)

The rubber mount looks in good condition and prob new from the previous owner!

 

[gvee]

Personally I cheated and ran a single wire from horn push through the steering column coupling and to the horn. Obviously leave enough slack for the wire to wrap around itself when you go to full lock. Also use a heavily shielded wire, nothing too thin and flimsy!

I did this after my first attempted fix failed after not many miles. The current method still works after quite a few more (over 500 miles that's for sure) 8)

 

[Araon]

The fact that when you unscrew the base of the column and move it away it works, indicates that this is your souce of current flow so obviously you are either missing the black plastic bush as gvee links to or its is damaged or there is a short between the base plate and the column ie a trapped stray wire in the bush.

if its damaged/worn a simple repair would be to wrap some electrical tape around the column where the plate sits around and refit the bush.... or indeed if its missing a temporary repair would be to fit tape in this area thereby isolating the live column from the bus shell.

 

[lozp]

Personally I cheated and ran a single wire from horn push through the steering column coupling and to the horn. Obviously leave enough slack for the wire to wrap around itself when you go to full lock. Also use a heavily shielded wire, nothing too thin and flimsy!

I did this after my first attempted fix failed after not many miles. The current method still works after quite a few more (over 500 miles that's for sure) 8)

i think i might have to cheat!! i thought i had it it was working, turned the engine on and beeeeeeeeeeeep so i turned the engine of an again as soon as the ignition is turned on, off goes the horn :x its driving me mad and i am now getting dirty looks off the neighbours when the horn is blaring!!

should i be able to pull the rubber bush out to acess the wire better to see where it is shorting??

 

[ozziedog]

I had issues with mine and it took a while to get my head around the fact that the horn is live fed all the time (ign on) . The horn itself needs to be isolated from the body (and earth) and the horn switch actually earths out the horn to complete the circuit. If the noise is an issue, replace the horn (temporarily) with something else 12V, like a radio, or a light unit or an old fan, so you know when the current is going through it, could even connect a tester :shock:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,, Save the best till last :mrgreen:

 

[55ovalcharlie]

should i be able to pull the rubber bush out to acess the wire better to see where it is shorting??

are you deffinitely sure that it is the wire that is shorting? If not it still could be the outer coulmn shorting when it goes through the ignition barrel housing. This is exactly the problem I had and after hours of thinking it must be the wire at fault, I discovered that the column was earthing out on the housing. Not saying this is deffinitely the problem with yours but it was a whole lot easier to fix this than redoing all the wires etc...

 

[lozpeters]

should i be able to pull the rubber bush out to acess the wire better to see where it is shorting??

are you deffinitely sure that it is the wire that is shorting? If not it still could be the outer coulmn shorting when it goes through the ignition barrel housing. This is exactly the problem I had and after hours of thinking it must be the wire at fault, I discovered that the column was earthing out on the housing. Not saying this is deffinitely the problem with yours but it was a whole lot easier to fix this than redoing all the wires etc...

I was thinking that it might be that last night :!: as i had unbolted the outer column at the base to see if i could get a better view of what i was doing, i am guessing if i have not alligned it properly it could easily be out of line and shorting! i will check it out when i get home today

 

[55ovalcharlie]

Don't forget that it's not jut the position of the base that determines I it is lined up. The position of the barrel housing is also a determining factor. On mine cos I've used a crappy Brazilian dashboard on my early bay it resulted in a rather poor alignment and the column was touching at the top despite adjusting the base as much as I could. To fix it I moved the brackets as best I could and then put a sliver of rubber sheet wrapped around the column at the base of the barrel housing to ensure it couldn't touch it.
Best of luck.

 

[Platinum Will]

Hi guys,

I have worked with my trusty VW auto electrician a couple of times to get horns working. Basically, like others have said when you turn the ignition on the horn gets a constant 12v+. From the horn, the - wire runs to a terminal on the bottom of the steering column outer tube. This terminal is inside the tube and you cannot get to it or see it without removing the tube upwards inside the bus. Unless you have xray vision and contortionist fingers... The terminal on mine was actually gone all together so I cleaned up the area and pop-riveted a ring terminal on with length of wire which I joined on under neath the belly pan.

The horn button is attached on one side to this column and the other to earth, completing the circuit.

You could have this wire loose or even off the terminal shorting on the steering box. Also if the outer tube is not properly insulated at the bottom and top it may be shorting. You can get non conductive gasket type sheeting and cut it to the right size to wrap around the top of the tube where it meets the ignition/wiper thingo. The plastic retaining clip at the bottom of the tube, between tube and base plate, may be broken and need replacing. If your base plate looks a bit caved in you'll need to hammer it back into shape.

Of course the easy way out is to rewire the horn to a separate button mounted somewhere on the dash, I did this to get through a road worthy...

 

[lozp]

ok had a good look and play around this evening, i taped a bulb to the horn terminals and looked for a flash, much better than a noisy horn

i think it is around the connector at the base of the steering coloum just above the steering box. i think it either shorths on the body or the centre of the coloum!

I could just about position the spade connector so it didnt touch anything. but when i push the wire to the horn on it would move it out of poisition and make a short

so i loosened the connector on the wire to the horn and repeated the above and it would work, untill i turned the engine on and the vibrations would shake the cable off arrrrrrrg

is there a way arround this?? i feel that i am close to getting it working but also close to just slapping a horn button on the dash!!

 

[creationblue]

i feel that i am close to getting it working but also close to just slapping a horn button on the dash!!

Thanks what i did

Just

 

[67panel]

for easier access to the base,first remove steering wheel .make mark to keep it lined up.undo indicator ,let it hang.take scres out of floor and then you can slide outer column up,use wd40 to help .take wire of horn that goes to column and feed it through so you can fit it to base .prob needs new terminal cos they split.well thats how i sort them.had a faulty rubber joint the other day that shorts column ,only when its done up!!!!!tried it on 2 buses ,og style ones fixed it.

 

[toxicbug66]

From experience there are a couple of things that are important, reiterating what others have also posted.

The outside of the column should be connected to the -ve side of the horn, if the original connector is broken pop rivet it to the outside of the column or use a self tapper.

The inner column should be connected to ground through the rubber coupling on the steering column. Make sure that you get it on the right side of the coupler otherwise it will be completely isolated. It doesn't matter if the inner and outer columns touch so long as the outer column does not touch the body.

The final piece of the jigsaw is to make sure that the horn is isolated from the body and the +ve side of the horn is connected to a switched live feed i.e only on when the ignition is switched on. If its not the horn will sound all the time as the steering lock completes the circuit.

I ripped my dash mount horn button out as there is nothing more satisfying than hitting a horn where it should be( on the steering wheel). Mounted on the dash it will be in the wrong place when you need it most. Its well worth the effort and I had a real sense of achievement when I got mine working. Took me 3 attempts but it was well worth it.

Richard

 

[dodge6x6]

hiya
have been having a similar problem with my bus,
have you replaced your square steering coupling?
as i have as old unit was age cracked, when i have connected up horns and replace centre wire, other wires
are sitting correctly.
But if i turn the steering wheel the horn sounds and its earthing through colum centre, have lost a few hrs trying to figure out what the problem was and today think i might have solved it,
the centre colum is earthing though the square rubber coupling, it looks like the replacement ones are
wire reinforced and with the bolt steel bushes when wheel is turned its earthing through the coupling!!
have made some small plastic spacers (only for centre colum bolts) not the steering box side ones and wrapped threads in insulation tape have only quickly tested this but it seems to work.

very strange but this is what i found today
hope this helps cheers Peter

 

[pottinger]

The outside of the column should be connected to the -ve side of the horn, if the original connector is broken pop rivet it to the outside of the column or use a self tapper.

Where was the original connector ? I have a wire attached to the outside of the column but dont know
where originally it would have connected to ? any pic ?
cheers