Indicator relay

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starbiscuit said:
The 4-pin flasher relay I needed for my 1970 van indicators was missing and because of the broken mess of my fusebox and other missing one-year-only difficulties, I changed it to 1973-on, so the original relay wouldn't physically fit.

No worries, I thought; I have a 4-pin flasher relay for a 1973 bus that fits my fusebox.

The problem is that the indicator tell-tales in the T2 dash have an ignition feed and need grounding to illuminate.
But all the 4-pin flasher relays around today (it seems) are designed for tell-tales that are grounded and need 12V to illuminate.

The traditional fix is to use a 3-pin relay, and piggyback the tell-tale lights onto the main flash output, so that the tell-tales illuminate by grounding through the main indicators (obviously when they are in the OFF flash phase).

And there are online VW parts retailers that sell the 4-pin relay for bays with a note to the effect "if the dash tell-tales don't illuminate, connect the blue/red wire to the black/green/white wire" (i.e. use only 3 pins of the 4 pin relay!)

However, grounding the tell-tales through the indicators means they are out-of sync with each other, so that when the hazards are on, you get an alternating red/green flashing effect between the hazard switch and the dash tell-tale.

Dissatisfied with that, and having an electronics-related day-job, I decided to take my black plastic 4-pin relay (DNI 0831) apart to see if it could be adapted. Pins are labelled 31, 49, 49a, KBL. It doesn't work as-is because KBL is a high-side switch for grounded tell-tales.

I was slightly surprised to find it was all surface-mount electronics inside, but I found the NPN emitter-follower KBL output stage and I was able to remove, re-solder and reconfigure it as open-collector (i.e. low-side switch for 12v-fed tell-tales).

Now the KBL pin works as VW intended and tell-tales are in-phase with the indicators and the hazard switch lamp.

Quite why VW decided both tell-tales should be tied together I don't know, and I have seen modification details to make them independent, but I chose to leave mine functioning as originally specified.

Most of the online diagrams I have seen for 4-pin relays have a similar NPN output stage and could therefore probably be modified in a similar fashion.

I can provide more details if anyone's interested, but there's a risk of inducing sleep.


That's very interesting what you said about the common fix for the tell-tales by piggy-backing the KBL onto the main flash signal as I haven't read that anywhere else. However I discovered it myself through trial and error. Thanks for the explanation though :) although I don't think I'll bother with trying to re-solder the relay as it works well enough for me. Got to admire your knowledge and perseverance with that though!
I don't think VW would have bothered with the tell-tales flashing either left or right corresponding to the actual direction of the turn as it would mean extra wiring or maybe they thought it was a luxury to have any tell-tale at all! After all its just a reminder that the indicator signal is on and reminds you to turn it off. The driver doesn't really need to be reminded which way they were intending to turn. If they do, maybe they shouldn't be driving at all :lol:
 

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