New bus - Leaking Devon Roof - Advice please!

[Julesx]

Apologies - my first post is a question!

I have recently purchased my first Vw Aircooled vechicle. After some searching and viewing came up with this - I know we like pictures, so......









If you are in the south east/Kent areas you may have seen it before?

I don't know much about these but I have a good friend who knows them well and I will avail myself of his knowledge and hopefully yours!

I am moderately useful with the spanners and will do the basics myself leaving the more specialist stuff to the, well, specialists.

My first and most pressing problem is the dreaded 'Leaking Devon Roof'! I knew about the shabby concertina side on purchase but missed the 'roof cap' issues when I viewed it has the roof had been elevated. I got all excited and was too concerned about the potential bodywork issues whilst doing my exam, so missed this -

 

[Julesx]

What is the forums view on this roof?

Is it a 'roof cap' that I have read about or na original Devon type roof?

As you can see it has damage to area of the bolts on the side and there is a big gap at the rear where the seal does not meet up correctly. Odd?

At the moment there is water coming into the roof and it lies on the roof lining and that in turns sags down. i have put a small hole in the roof lining to allow the accumulate water to drip out. It actually froze this morning and was s sheet of ice under the actual roof!

What do you think?

 

[veedubd]

Hi mate, looks like a roof cap, the original if im correct in thinking has a canvas type material with an aluminium trim around the outside, sorry cant be of any further assistance but may shed a bit of light for you nice looking bus by the way mine is also a 71 devon

 

[AndyO]

looks like a nice bus, badge looks a little small at the front. Not heard of a roof 'cap' before, but that roof top is different to my 72' xover. I do not have a picture but the roof looking at the top is normally in two parts with a seal...

I would not fret, if your replacing the bellows that top part will have to come off where you can give it a refresh. It's probably better than mine as you do not have any rivets showing, which are a pain for leaking...

 

[ozziedog]

Hi there and welcome to the forum and that is a smashing looking bus you have there. I had a Devon roof like you have there and was absolutely appalled at the construction techniques used from a roofers point of view (previous life as a roofer). Yours doesn`t seem to be standard and looks to have been fibreglassed over because of the dreaded rivets mentioned above. It possibly may even be an early type of roof cap. The original roof had a fibreglass or ally shroud from the pop top to the gutters which doesn`t actually do anything and was disposed with on later Devon roofs. The pop top with the concertina bellows works very very well but is an expensive bellows to replace. Now the issue with the pop top design is that it`s an ally outer frame with a seperate roof panel in the centre but you can`t see this on yours because of the fibreglass. The outer frame and flat panel have a number of problems starting with the fact that they are joined together by a rubber gasket that fails rather quickly as it can`t accommodate the expansion and contraction of a large piece of ally that`s riveted to a frame, it also means that the water needs to get to ten to fifteen mil deep before it can get over the rubber hence it is holding water from day one and gets worse as the roof gradually sags. All this contained water gradually works it way through both the gasket and the rivets. The Devon `cure` was to vinyl coat the flat roof section over the rivets but still kept the gasket so it worked for a short while. There is now a modern roof cap available that ticks all the boxes in that it`s one piece and lightweight and has full length ribs to give it some degree of strength. I should imagine that if you used one, that you would be able to ditch a lot of the sagging crap that goes with the original Devon roof. Well worth reading a re build thread on here by a chap named `Hotrod` who has used this very cap and it looks and works very well. Any other thing you do with that roof is a temporary repair and may last a short while. One up the road from me has a corrugated clear plastic roof sheet that they plonk on it and strap it down when it`s parked up and he`s been wrestling with this for a good few years. But do a search on here and you`ll find it mentioned by quite a few and most seem to accept that they just leak and that`s that. A modern roof cap is the way forward and should last you a good number of years . Thanks for joining us and thanks for the pics, it is one smart looking bus :mrgreen:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Bloody roofers :evil: :evil: :roll: :evil: :evil:

 

[Moseley]

Have a read of my build thread - the majority of which is based around re-engineering the Devon roof to keep it looking and functioning as originally intended, but also (hopefully) coming up with a solution that cures all the long term issues with this style of roof. It also shows the construction of the original roof:

http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As mentioned, yours looks to have had a fibreglass cap stuck / bolted over the original roof - hopefully the original is still intact underneath, although it'll probably have sagged and have leaking rivets. The problem with any of the aftermarket fIbreglass caps is that they will still sag over time the same as the original roof, but the problem is then doubled because it is likely to have been permanently bonded to the OE roof. The issue with the design is the lack of support to the 'curve' of the inner roof sheet. The OE framework isn't man enough, so beefing this up should be all that is required to provide a long term solution. Blowing my own trumpet slightly here, but I think my design should do this!

 

[ozziedog]

I`ve just had a re look at the `Hotrod` build thread in the gallery, and the roofy bit is on page nine. I`m not one hundred percent sure if he got rid of the original stuff that the roof consisted of or not, but as said above, the crap in the roof will eventually drag anything down and bow it because of the weight. But with a little strengthening like suggested above, this should counteract this. Plus the premium to all of this is if you use a roof cap with a skeletal frame, the weight trying to drag down the centre of the roof will be reduced be about 50 to 60 percent, so it should last another forty years

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,, :mrgreen:

 

[ozziedog]

P.S.
Moseley, your roof looks fantastic.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :mrgreen:

 

[Julesx]

Many thanks for your detailed replies.

ozziedog - your description makes sense of it all!

Moseley - your solution looks to have covered all the problems but, alas, my engineering skills are no where near as good as yours and I would make a right hash of it!

I have made a few calls and it seems that I can -

1. Have the original Devon roof completely repaired having disposed of the old cap (risking a return in a few years of more leaks!)

2. Ditch the cap and buy a new one from JK and fit new bellows, etc.

3. Have a complete new roof put on.

One company said that they commonly put a Dormobile roof on leaking Devons. All the parts are still manufactured by Dormobile and are readily available. Allegedly they do not leak!

I have also seen http://www.spaceroofs.co.uk/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; who have new roof solution that is similar to the Canterbury Pitt style. Looks good.

Options 1 & 3 seem to be about £3k fitted :shock:

I'm now off to count my 'change jar' to see if I can afford it!