Poor welding? ....it's awesome!

[moler]

I've been reading through quite a few whole resto threads lately, trying to catch up. And there are few that have stuck in my mind where the welding has been obviously quite poor, I've even thought 'I should comment on that' but there's 15 pages and 3 years to go!!!! but the comments have all been positive, only for many pages later (usually after the first restoration company has been sacked for not delivering on their word) they are told it's bad, really bad

So this got me to wondering, do we not post the truth for fear of been seen as negative? or trouble making? maybe we don't want to upset the van owner when in fact we could be saving them alot of money, and maybe even their pride and joy. A PM would be good idea, but I'm guessing that rarely happens too, as they seemed to have carried on with the resto's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty of this as anyone, although I tend not to post anything, instead of posting false praise. It could have something to do with the British trait of not wanting to hurt peoples feelings.

This isn't aimed at owner restorers, many crave advise and certainly encouragement, it is after all the fuel of motivation. This is for those that may not have the time, or the ability, who are paying a lot of their hard earned cash to someone who claims to know what they're doing, when in fact they don't.

So lets look out for our VW bretheren


Just needed to get that off my chest, rant over

 

[sparkywig]

I've thought the same, but have had a couple of abusive replies to pm's pointing out slightly dangerous bodges, so I don't bother anymore.

 

[Nick-Rackham]

Thought provoking, and very well put Luckily I'm in the position that with help from a good number of guys on here and other sites that I'm doing mine myself, and although I would admit being disappointed if someone posted "that's not good enough" or, "you'd be better off doing that again", I think I would appreciate it in the long run. It would be interesting to a) hear from anyone else that's restoring their own van as to the level of critique that would be expected from their peers, and b) from anyone that's having their bus restored "professionally" as to what the level of comments would be acceptable ensuring they are recieving value for money and good quality.

 

[Mr Brightside]

I've thought the same, but have had a couple of abusive replies to pm's pointing out slightly dangerous bodges, so I don't bother anymore.

But surely its worth the risk if it saves someone from a potentially dangerous bus.

Know what you mean though, there does seem to be a culture sometimes of "if you cannot say anything gushingly positive, then don't say anything", even when its obviously crap.

If you post for everyone to see, then you openly invite opinion & comment......

 

[sparkywig]

I'd be perfectly happy to receive a pm pointing out something slightly dodgy, wrongly fitted or an easier way. After all, we don't know it all, do we.... :|

 

[RICH-I-AM]

I know what you mean.
Ive never posted on things that dont look right. Never, as far as i can remember have i seen anything dangerous.
If i were to see I.E badly welded adjusters on a beam that some poor unsuspecting person was just about to fit to their Bus, id tell em. Flack or not.


Rich

 

[creationblue]

I'd be perfectly happy to receive a pm pointing out something slightly dodgy, wrongly fitted or an easier way. After all, we don't know it all, do we.... :|

I agree, whereas a post on the thread that says 'thats looks shite mate' probably wont make u many friends :lol:

Just

 

[Gadget Boy]

The trouble is Moler , alot of peeps who are paying an '' Expert '' alot of money often dont like being told there '' Expert '' is a fuc#ing bodger.......

Ive had buses come into my workshop that have been downright dangerous and the unfortunate owner has had the Local expert look at his/her bus and unfortunatly rip them off.....

Do you remember in the mid the 90's when all the ''Experts '' popped on to the VW scene , painted alsorts of beetles pink and green and promptly dissappeared again ..... :roll:

On the subject of welding Ive just bought a brand new welder and it was just over £ 450 its 200 amp and its outstanding :lol: I know from my own years in the scene You get what you pay for in Tools and Experience ......

Finally ive tried the private message bit and much like Sparky ,you end up thinking why did I bother.......

 

[exuptoy]

I recently posted a pic of my plates which were welded in the window surround in another site and I got a reply that the welding was set up incorrectly and that my wire speed was incorrect. I did appreciate the nod but I had to explain that I had spot welded the plate all the way around then went over it with a run when it was all solid before grinding back. I did however make me re-assess my welding and how I set up my welder tho. So it can work.

 

[ZedBed]

I tend to keep quiet for DIY unless it's structural welding with slugs on top and no penetration, then I tactfully advise grinding off, cutting through the weld and turning it up. Life's a lesson after all - I wish someone had told me some of the things I found out the hard way!

I'm not shy when someone's paying to have their van ruined, though again I hope I'm fairly tactful. Unless they don't listen. :shock: If job's done and paid for I get tactful again.

 

[ZedBed]

I've been reading through quite a few whole resto threads lately, trying to catch up. And there are few that have stuck in my mind where the welding has been obviously quite poor, I've even thought 'I should comment on that' but there's 15 pages and 3 years to go!!!! but the comments have all been positive, only for many pages later (usually after the first restoration company has been sacked for not delivering on their word) they are told it's bad, really bad

So this got me to wondering, do we not post the truth for fear of been seen as negative? or trouble making? maybe we don't want to upset the van owner when in fact we could be saving them alot of money, and maybe even their pride and joy. A PM would be good idea, but I'm guessing that rarely happens too, as they seemed to have carried on with the resto's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty of this as anyone, although I tend not to post anything, instead of posting false praise. It could have something to do with the British trait of not wanting to hurt peoples feelings.

This isn't aimed at owner restorers, many crave advise and certainly encouragement, it is after all the fuel of motivation. This is for those that may not have the time, or the ability, who are paying a lot of their hard earned cash to someone who claims to know what they're doing, when in fact they don't.

So lets look out for our VW bretheren


Just needed to get that off my chest, rant over

Justifiable rant. I've been reading the same threads. If it's not too late shout out.

 

[Nugsy]

Whne i was restoring my crossover any welding advice would hav ebeen appreciated as i was just learning to. And as for criticism i am my won worst critic, so much so once i had worked my way round the front i went back to my original b-post starting point and redid it thinking how shit it was the first time. Things is by 2/3rds the way through i fel like that about a few bits and had started to redo them rather than try to forget them.

On self restorers i only ever offer encouragement as i know what a hard journey it is, but on the subject of experts i agree with above that a lot of experts are only really good at lining their own pockets.

You get a finished job and are extatic your bus is now on the road then 3 months later when filler cracks and rust starts coming back its really to late to go back

 

[Doris]

like a lot of things,its not what you say....its the way that you say it.I'd be more than happy to have a politely worded pm about something I've missed or got wrong. Surely,only a fool turns down someone's experience and advice that could benefit them? It is a shame that some may feel that pointing out a fault is a personal attack, its not, its just that the person highlighting a potential obstacle probably care greatly about keeping an old VW on the road and want to save the owner of heartache and money.It must be a hard decision though to keep quiet if you see something screamingly wrong or you get the feeling that someone is being taken for a ride. :?

please politely pm me lads if ever I muck up!! :mrgreen:

 

[easy]

Well put Molar 8) if something is very dangerous and wrong i will certainly not hold back and say so. I will also back it up with an explanation. I couldnt live with myself if someone was paying top wack for work and it was in anyway dangerous or not up to scratch.

People invest allot of money in their buses and they should be pointed in the right direction where this is concerned, it may seem harsh at the time but worth it in the end. Just have to be careful on how its tackled. :mrgreen:


Off topic alert!

P.s. How did you choose the name Molar? if its anything to do with teeth, let me know because i have some great stuff to do with Molars!

 

[moler]

I didn't expect to alone in what I thought, but I didn't expect such a positive response, thank you

Easy - It's Moler, with an 'E', and it's origin is quite boring, but seeing as you asked As an apprentise I got the very imaginative nickname 'Mole', my first name is Adrian!! When I needed a username for an ISP way back I tried Mole, but it needed to be 6 characters and the suggestion was 'moler1' so I went with it, even my website is http://www.moler-one.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still awake? well done :lol: :lol:

 

[easy]

I didn't expect to alone in what I thought, but I didn't expect such a positive response, thank you

Easy - It's Moler, with an 'E', and it's origin is quite boring, but seeing as you asked As an apprentise I got the very imaginative nickname 'Mole', my first name is Adrian!! When I needed a username for an ISP way back I tried Mole, but it needed to be 6 characters and the suggestion was 'moler1' so I went with it, even my website is http://www.moler-one.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still awake? well done :lol: :lol:

Nice :mrgreen: simple answers to simple questions :mrgreen: now get back to that welding!

 

[vwvanman0]

i think most folk restoring their vans with limited skills would welcome constructive criticism.

as long as it is constructive, no one wants to graft and end up with a bodge.and please dont stop trying to help other folk cos of some ungrateful idiots! if i ever got around to a resto on my van id welcome any advice or feedback.

on the other hand if its a paid for job flag it up as the bodge it is! ive seen many a van at shows and in mags that are supposedly the dogs danglies but in reality look shocking when examined for panel gap etc.

 

[ProfessorWheeto]

I've found the best thing to do is offer constructive comments, if you post "thats pidgeon shit" they ain't going to be too happy, but if you can identify potential problems from the photos you'll get a better responce.

As for commenting on professional jobs, as I am in the trade I don't think its right for me to slate another companies work online, even if it is gash. There is always chinese whispers when it comes to bodyshops and their reputation and it works two ways (places turning out crap work get glowing reviews if they are all from the owners mates or club and other places get slated for work they didn't do, or customers they didn't deal with. The convosation of "xyz bodyshop are shit" usually ends with "well I didn't get any work done there but a friend of my brother in law" etc)

I think the other thing is if you are to pass judgement on someones work make sure you have the knowledge to back it up, its sometimes scary reading the tech sections on forums and trawling through the utter crap people post up who are either incorrectly regurgitating information they have read rather than talking from practical experience, driving round in deathtraps or can't tell one end of a spanner from the other.

And a final point, there seems to be a feeling from a large number of people that you need to take the vehicle to a "specialist" This isn't strictly true, if theres a guy who's spent thirty years restoring other classic marques he'll be able to cope with a VW. And its the same for modern bodyshops, whilst there are some who aren't interested in classics, and some cowboys. there are some who are who might just be more experienced,better equipt and have a qualification or two rather than the local "specialist"

(and before anyone points out, yes the welding at the start of my resto thread is shocking and I cringe everytime I see it!)

 

[antoine]

I have to agree that any input and feedback if helpful, i think thats part of the reason people come on this forum to start with, and the sheer extent of the resto threads backs it up, i remember getting all sorts of advice back when i started. some of it from Zedbed ofer on the JK forum if i remember rightly. and it all helped, some i had to explain was PO work and hadnt been done yet, or was a temporary job until id got other bits in place, but it all helped, and in the end when i had to farm it out there were very few bits of my work that needed redoing in comparison to the PO's rust welding efforts.


So dont be shy, if its shit, shout it loud and proud. not everyone can afford a welded and the classes, so people teach themselves. if you cant take constructive criticism then your never gonna learn to do it right anyway. :lol:

 

[cunning plan]

constructive criticism then your never gonna learn to do it right anyway. :lol:

That is the key here - 'constructive criticism', something helpful where the person can learn and do it properly because they simply may no know any different.

There is a real difference between bitching / trolling and being constructive.

For example (completely made up): "try mounting that the other way around, it will be more secure"

as opposed to: "why did you put that on there like that? It looks sh1t"

As long as we all stay constructive, great - I wouldn't want EB to turn into a bitching ground like on some forums.. :roll: