RED9 EZ-Rider issues

[rlepecha]

Evening,

Just wondering if anyone has had or is having the same issues as I am with the RED9 EZ Rider kit (torsion leaf replacement bars + coilovers).

I have got a fair bit of play in the top arms, which would appear to be caused by wear in the Red9 bars.
The beam has always been well greased but the issue seems to be getting worse.

I'm thinking I will need to strip the bars out of the beam at some point, and shim the sleeves at both ends to remove the play. However, someone may have come up with a better method if they have had the same issue.

The kit was fitted prior to me buying the bus, and therefore I am not fully aware of the materials used in the kit. So if anyone knows what the bar and sleeve material is, that would also be helpful. I presume they are both a grade of steel.

Thanks
Ryan



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[Bundy]

Make sure the grub screw on the arms are actually seated in the groove of the bar ends...
Mine weren't to begin with and I suddenly got huge play!
I had to knock out the end caps on the arms to allow enough room for the bar to go into them properly for the grub screw to sit in the groove fully.
Cheers
Al

 

[matty74]

+1 with Bundy's reply ... I had play in my trailing arms because they hadn't gone on all the way ... it was only about 3mm either side, but made hell of a difference. Once corrected the grub screws went in a bit further too, but don't over-tighten them into the torsion bar groove as they'll wear it away [emoji106]


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[rlepecha]

Thanks for the responses guys, they are fully seated as I had to make up some replacement end caps after they popped off.

Matty, can you explain why over tightening the grub screws would result in wear, the ends are sleeves aren't they? So surely the torque on them grub screws should be somewhat irrelevant.

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[matty74]

Hi mate, it was something I read on here or another site where somebody had tightened them right up and the end of the bar had sheared off. The trailing arms will still need to Independently flex they can't do that if the grub screws are tightened up fully. The grub screw goes into a v groove on the bar, not onto a sleeve. If you remove one of the trailing arms you'll see [emoji106]


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[matty74]

Another thing to consider is, I believe there are 2 types of rubber seal that on the trailing arm to front beam connection. A thicker and thinner one. If the play is on the trailing arm to front beam then maybe you have the thinner seal? Just a thought ... I only resolved my problem once I'd removed the arms to inspect ... hope this helps [emoji106]


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[rlepecha]

Right, I see.
So the kit is designed so that the grub screw sits in a groove, and that it will eventually wear the end of the bar away.... Resulting in play.... Excellent.

I had at least expected the bar to be designed in a way to allowed the ends to rotate independently and not rely on a V groove + grub screw being frictionless joint.

Well, my grub screws have been tightened up nice and tight for the past 2 years, so the ends of the bars are probably well past it by now then hence my issues.

I think the phrase 'if you want something done right, do it yourself' is quite suitable to use in this situation.



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[matty74]

Totally agree ... the guy who fitted mine had never done one before, so I'm glad I revisited it once I got the van back. My problems first started after the centre grub screw came loose on the lower from beam, resulting in a delayed reaction when cornering (weird) ... now it's all sorted it drives great ... hope you get it sorted. On the thread I read that sheared, the guy contacted Red9 and they sent him 2 new torsion bars for free ... so you never know [emoji106]


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[lhu128l]

If they shear and there have been cases then you need to hope your going slow enough to survive .
Never liked these .. all weight on shock tower as well .. complete bad design

 

[Bundy]

Mine did many miles not seated correctly...
I only found out when the top arm made a bid for freedom having just come off the Windermere ferry...it was the end cap popping off and bouncing down the road that alerted me and made me stop. I then realised that you could move the top of the wheel in and out several inches :shock:
Nice bit of roadside fettling and several hours on a campsite later and I was good to go again!

 

[Bundy]

Have the wishbone set-up now which is so much better!

 

[rlepecha]

Minor update to this thread.

I popped the caps off the top arms and pulled the upper rod out to see what is going on.
The ends of the bar are sleeved, and will rotate independently to the rest of the bar. Although there is no bushings/bearings etc. to stop wear, but that I expected. Will look at some redesign work to try and improve things later in the year..

Couldn't shift the shoulder bolts holding the sleeves on, despite undoing the locking grub screw. I think removal of the shoulder bolts might prove a little difficult now given the grub screw will have deformed the thread a bit, but that's for another day.

It looks like one of the upper arms on mine has not been 100% seated, despite the lack of end caps.

So, another question for you all..
Do the end caps need to have popped off the top and bottom arms? Currently my bottom arms seem to be seated correctly but still have the original end caps.

I am not entirely sure why people seem to have been instructed not to tighten the grub screws on the arms up fully, unless some of the older kits don't have fully sleeved ends.. I certainly wouldn't be driving a bus with those screws 'loosely' tightened, they're the only thing holding the front suspension together!

Bundy, so you bought one system from them, found the flaws in it and then bought the more expensive system from them as well? You must have a lot of trust their engineering ability. Ha!

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[matty74]

Apologies rlepecha ... I miss understood what you mean't by sleeved ... yes the end pulleys do rotate. My grub screws are nipped up and then locked down, but not over-tightened, there's no play. I also used 12mm x 100mm 12.9 grade bolts on the top fixing and nyloc nuts all round.

Found this on the Late Bay

"I have had this set up for maybe 7 years now. It took a while to get used to it but it seems quite normal now. It's not true that if one side goes up the other side does too though. The bars that go through the beam are fixed in the middle but they have swivelling pulley-like fitments on each end which the trailing arms are secured to by means of the grub screws, so the arms are independent. I've seen pics of where the grub screws have been over tightened, damaging the pulleys. Then again if you don't tighten them enough you can rock the wheel in and out. The most alarming sensation is if you don't have the centre screw properly tightened and the whole bar can move sideways like vwcooper has had. I think the issue here is that you are expected to reuse the original grub screws and the centre ones are not quite long enough so the lock nut doesn't have quite enough thread to lock on to"

The gas shocks need setting and it took a while to get this right. Mine are at 8 clicks from the fully anti clockwise position

Hope you get it sorted

 

[Bundy]

"Bundy, so you bought one system from them, found the flaws in it and then bought the more expensive system from them as well? You must have a lot of trust their engineering ability. Ha!"

Just glutton for punishment me :lol:
I didn't have an issue with the design of the ez-rider kit, but some clearer instructions pointing out the pitfalls would have been good.
I had to remove all the end caps to get them all to fit, and I ran without them...just made sure there was plenty grease in the ends to stop crap getting in there. Maybe the bars should have been factionally shorter and all might have fit then!!
The wishbone set-up hasn't been without issues either, but Red9 have always been helpful on the phone and sorted any issues without question or cost to me. I love the set-up as it makes the bus much nicer to drive.
Good luck with sorting yours...maybe give Simon @ Red9 a call if needs be...
Cheers
Al