Shopping trolly steering

[tsunamivw]

Hi

I've been struggling with my steering for months going on years now and think I might have sussed it but want confirmation from the wiser heads here.
I'm driving a 1969 westfalia on dropped spindles dropped 2 splines at the rear and the steering has been sketchy for a while but intermittent. I started with the tracking and tyres and on the third try got it tracked and new tyres, but after a while encountered the same thing completely unpredictable steering, mad swings to the side and generally an unpleasant experience. Next the brakes, there were issues so we replaced everything including the drums. It seemed ok but then up the symptoms popped again. I've just been to Wales and back and I think I've finally realised what it is and I cant believe my own stupidity!!!
Its the Rain!
In the dry the steering is precise and predictable (for a bay) In the wet its a F**ckin nightmare it swings from side to side randomly and the poorer the road surface the worse it gets so it would seem to be the rain does this mean its my tyres or something else?
Up front I've got Conti Premier Contact 175/65 R15 84H
On the Back ECSTA HP4 P195/55 R15 87H M+S

Any ideas advice on how to sort this, its great in the dry but rain in the UK is a fact of life

Cheers

Sean

 

[ozziedog]

I`m not sure about the rain being the cause. I`m wondering if it`s possibly a combination of rain and something else. Something like duff tyres or directional tyres on the wrong way around or something else happening when it`s raining. I`ve not heard of rain causing steering issues before. Is there anything else you only or usually do when it`s raining ?? like extra passengers because of the rain ?? Any chance you can borrow a couple of wheels and tyres from someone local to test this theory. As it`s the UK, you`ll get plenty of chances to prove this point :lol:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,, Keep us posted :mrgreen:

 

[Trikky2]

If your getting this effect only when the road is wet it indicates there is a tracking/alignment problem.

When the road is dry theres lots of grip so tyre sidewall bending and tyre tread scrub will mask the problem. A typical symptom of this is when the directional stability is greatly improved when new tyres are fitted since new tyres with more tread have a lot more tread scrub.

When the roads are wet you have less grip so then, instead of the tyre sidewalls bending and the tyre treads scrubbing, you get one wheel gripping more than the other, depending on road surface, camber and loading. Hence the sudden changes in direction. Simple really.

 

[tsunamivw]

Thanks Tricky and Ozzie
I can totally believe the tracking issue but I've had the van tracked three times now and not that long ago,my problem is in the dry its fine so unless its raining I cant even test it. I also have problems finding someone to track it as the local VW place just lied about doing it at all. Would the tracking go out faster because its on dropped spindles?

Cheers

Sean

 

[Trikky2]

The tracking wont go out once its set unless you hit a kerb (or similar shock to the front suspension) or until there is excessive free play in the ball joints, track rod ends, suspension arms etc.

The only way to sort this is to first thoroughly check all the moving parts for free play. Dont forget the centre pin on the beam and its attachment where its mount is welded to the top suspension beam. Also check the beam itself is not corroded since corrosion can allow it to flex.

Once you are certain there is no excessive free play in any of the moving parts you must check none of the parts are bent. A bent suspension arm, for instance, will cause the tracking and camber to change as the suspension moves up and down; whilst a bent steering arm on the hub will cause just the tracking to change, this is called "bump steer".

Only after doing all these checks can the camber (the amount the wheels lean off vertical) be checked and set.

Finally, once all these things have been done the tracking can be set (the amount the wheels toe in or out).

 

[tsunamivw]

Thanks again Trikky2

I'll get on it as soon as I can and let you know the result, it would be great it its a fix as its stopped me wanting to drive the van

Cheers

Sean

 

[ozziedog]

Hey Sean, what dropped spindles are you running ??? And are you getting a lot of unusual tyre wear possibly inner edges ???

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You Swine !! :shock: You is making me think :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol:

 

[tsunamivw]

Hi Ozzie

They are transporterhaus and i was getting a lot of inside wear which is why I had the tracking done, I'd basically wrecked a set of new tyres in 300 miles! The guys that did the tracking last seemed to know their stuff and spent a lot of time on the bus so I think I'll go back to them in a couple of weeks when I can get up there!

BUT!! I just had a look at the tyres and the front drivers is smooth on the inside and the front passengers I can see the wire on the inside, so I need to find someone who knows how to track a bus!

Thanks for helping an idiot look in the right places guys

Sean

 

[ozziedog]

That`s what I was hoping you`d say :mrgreen: That`s exactly what mine was doing and someone pointed me in the right direction. Tie rods at the spindle end need to be flipped and not replaced as stock. Your wheel alignment and camber can be spot on but as soon as you drive and get the suspension working, it all goes completely to pot because the tie rods are pulling the suspension geometry all over the place. Had them swapped over and the wear thing has disappeared. I burnt out the inners on a brand spanking set of tyres in less than 1000 miles, maybe less than 500. Didn`t drive in the wet often though, so I didn`t suss from your post that it was related. The other weird thing I used to get occasionally was going over and trying to straddle speedbumps at slow speed, the bus would try to climb them sideways because the good tread would hit the side slopes of the bumps. All these little pennies dropped after I had the answer, but it took a lot of working out what was going on. Tracking and camber re set after with a bit of string will do, you`ll be amazed at the difference :mrgreen:

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I knew that one :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: