Too low (urgent front suspension woes)

[gvee]

So over the last two days I've been trying to sort out some stuff on my front suspension but at the moment I wish I hadn't bothered.

I finally got it back on the ground this afternoon and this is what it looked like

If I take the ARB off I am still only an inch from the floor (if that).

Previously it had been lowered on welded spindles.
I swapped these over for THaus 3.5" dropped spindles.

To have put me on the ground I can only surmise two things:

• Beam leaves have died... although there's definitely some tension on each trailing arm (or it would have been a breeze to fit the spindles).
• Beam has been cut and turned in a former life.

The more I've thought about it the more I think it is the latter.

Any ideas?

The purpose of the swap is that I need to narrow my track a little. After measuring a few things up I believe the THaus spindles will give me around 4mm extra tuck on each side (not to mention the ability to have a speedo cable fitted). This coupled with some new wheels I hope to have sourced this will give me the clearance I need.

I can reverse the procedure but I am worried that if the problem is with the leaves or something then I will still have the same problem. I am on a pretty tight schedule to get things done...

Any thoughts?

 

[Tofufi]

I can't see your photograph, I don't know if anyone else can?

If the Transporterhaus spindles lower by 3.5 inches, and your old welded spindles were the WW 2.5" drop ones, you should have only gone down an inch.

If you've just swapped the spindles, you can easily swap back for now. When sorting mine, I got so practised at it that I could swap both sides in under 30 mins start to finish

Is your beam narrowed? Adjustable?

My WW welded spindles allow you to use a speedo cable...

 

[gvee]

Sorry, should have said: the welded spindles are home brewed by a previous owner.

It occurs to me that the torsion arms were not flipped, which won't have helped matters?

Not sure I can manage it in half an hour but I am certainly getting well versed in the process :lol:

Beam isn't narrowed, doesn't have any adjusters.

 

[Tofufi]

The torsion arms must have been replaced with those that come with the THaus spindles, as the balljoints are upside down..

Still can't see your pics, but your bus looks low from your avatar. I'd be surprised if that were on spindles alone. Clear pictures of what you have would help diagnose things.

When you fitted the new torsion arms (the arms between the leaves and spindles) did you notice if any of the leaves were missing (or cut to ensure they don't contribute to the spring rate)?

I wouldn't recommend reversing the orientation of the trailing leaves to reverse any sag in them...

 

[gvee]

Sorry, unclear again...

I swapped the torsion arms and spindles for the THaus set (with the flipped ball joints).

The set that was on there had the ball joints pointed towards the floor. The THaus ones have ball joints that face to the sky.

The bus was low, yes.

As for the leaves; I believe they're all there. I think that one (possibly two) in one of the tubes might have broken.

The picture is basically showing that the beam is ridiculously close to the floor. The ARB is touching the ground.

The bus was low before but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary when lying underneath. No sign of adjusters. The only other modification I noticed (I was only really checking for condition but figure that any welds would have been obvious) was that the bottom of the beam has been shaved... if it hadn't then that would be touching the ground right now!

Can try get some pictures in the dark tomorrow night but can't think of anything that I could have missed?

 

[Moseley]

Might be worth posting up some pictures of the original welded spindles to see what's going on there as well. Might be that they weren't welded to much of a drop at all and it is in fact a cut and turned beam, or someone has tampered with the leaves in the past.

 

[gvee]

Good idea. Will get some pics tomorrow night. Foolishly never compared them between swaps.

I didn't remove the spindles from the arms. Left the hubs and dustcovers in place on the lower arms but it might be enough to work something out from.

Where on the beam should I look for evidence of turning?

 

[lhu128l]

I agree either leaves are bust or have been removed ! Are both sets there and intact ? And she must of had her beam cut and turned at some point ...

 

[gvee]

All leaves are there and there's a chance a couple are broken but very few.
Cut and turned looks like the culprit more and more...


From what I have researched it looks like I need to look at the middle of the beam tubs for evidence of welding to see if it has been modified.

Any idea where I can get a servo bracket? There was a guy on ebay that made them but I can't find them now. Have another beam I can swap over to but this doesn't have the bracket but I have found another guy that can [hopefully] do it.

My dad just sent me a pic of the welded spindles:

Apologies, he has a worse camera phone than me! The screwdriver is illustrating where the speedo hole is :S

 

[bluenose]

I thinkn the beam must be cut and turned. what was the reason for changing the setup dude?

 

[gvee]

The reason for changing the set up is threefold:

1. Narrow the track slightly (the tubs foul the doors)
2. Enable fitting of a speedo cable (nut on ball joint covers speedo hole on current spindles)
3. Raise it the tiniest amount (wasn't an intent really, but the changes should have raised it just a little bit)

At this stage it looks like I will have to reverse my changes and approach from a different angle (new beam, perhaps).

 

[ozziedog]

George, mine wasn`t quite that low when I fitted T haus spindles originally, but when I added some very low profile tyres to the mix, it wasn`t too far from where you are now. If you have lost `any ' of the springing from your existing leaves then this may account for where you are now. If you go back to the thread about Gaz shox, one of the reasons some people were fitting them was to give it a little lift with the coil overs assisting the original leaves a tad, and also giving you some adjustment for height. What yres you got on there dudey ??

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Lowering is such great fun !! :mrgreen:

 

[gvee]

The THaus spindles are off my '72 which has a stock beam, coilovers and ran lower profile tyres up front. It was nowhere near as low as this is sat now - in fact it was pretty close to the stance on the PV when I got it! From memory there was a single broken leaf in each tube on that beam too.

Sorry, not certain of the tyres on it at the moment but can check later if necessary. Am going to get some new rubber soon any way so can put whatever I want on them.

If I were to guess I would say that the spindles that were on the bus were lowered by about an inch as I reckon I've lost about 2.5" fitting the 3.5" THaus ones. They're definitely not standard spindles or I would be able to fit the speedo!

The current plan is to reverse what I've already done so it is drivable again. I have some wheels with a better offset to test fit to get me a little narrower but I fear it might not be quite enough... in which case I will have to go for a narrowed beam *sigh*

Work and the weather are against me. I'll be lying under the bus come rain or shine on New Years Day to try get things sorted.

 

[Graham L]

Hi George

I would suspect your beam had been cut and turned in a previous life and 2.5 dropped spindles got it lower but to be honest if the beam had been cut and turned theres normally no need to fit dropped spindles.

The 3.5 THaus ones actually drop the bus more than 3.5 due to the combination of the flipped spindles and arms, you are looking at more like 4-4.5 inches when we have fitted these before which wont help your situation.

I've also never run the ARB with flipped spindles and its always been fine so thats also not helping with the height about the ground.

You really need to compare the set up side by side to see what the actual difference is, you may find your previous ones were not 2.5 inch but less especially if they were on a cut and turned beam. look at your spindle position and see how much it has changed with the 2 set ups and that will give you a clue as to what is going on.

 

[gvee]

Cheers Graham. I'll get them side by side with a tape measure as soon as possible. Didn't think about the added flip of the ball joints (though I really should have).

There was no ARB beforehand but I thought it reasonably sensible to add. The bus is literally sat on it, so it is being forced up a little. If the beam ends weren't trimmed down then these would be touching the floor for sure.

 

[the_troupster]

I thought it was normal to fit the ARB above the lower trailing arm rather than beneath it on lowered 'vans?

What shocks are you running? You may want to consider Gaz coilovers to raise it up again rather than messing with the beam? I'd certainly check that all your torsion leaves are in good order first though.

There's a really good thread on the merits of Gaz coilovers somewhere if you do a search...

Jim

PS. Where's john the horse when you need a cheeky quip about raising a 'van?! :lol:

 

[gvee]

I don't think you could fit it on the top of the lower arms as it would have to go through the beam end plates? I have fitted it "upside-down" for better clearance (normally they are fitted so that they are angled towards the ground).

It's got some decent Toxic (?) shocks on. Have some coilovers I can chuck at it temporarily but that will only be a sticking plaster to the larger problem of the beam being turned too far methinks.

I can only imagine what JTH would say To be fair, it looks f**king cool like this but it is completely undrivable even without the ARB fitted as it is a static drop and is stuck on a gravel driveway :lol:

 

[gvee]

Latest update made available by my kick-ass father! :mrgreen: 8) :mrgreen: 8)

He's spent the day out in this damp, horrible weather reversing the procedure and refitting the old spindles and trailing arms. Unfortunately the wheels with "better" offset I sourced wont fit over the hub centre so not able to truly see if these will make the necessary difference. Not sure I want to get in to machining the hole wider if they're not going to fix the problem. Will have a toy myself on my next day off.
Will need to redo the camber adjustment, double check the alignment and take it for a test drive, but at least it is now sitting on tyre rather than beam!

The beam has most definitely been welded.

What's the equivalent of beer tokens for someone who doesn't really drink and is avoiding chocolate at current? :lol:

 

[bluenose]

it looks like you need an adjustable beam then if you want to use them thaus spindles and maintain your same lowness, bummer, it never works out cheap!

 

[the_troupster]

I don't think you could fit it on the top of the lower arms as it would have to go through the beam end plates? I have fitted it "upside-down" for better clearance (normally they are fitted so that they are angled towards the ground).

It's got some decent Toxic (?) shocks on. Have some coilovers I can chuck at it temporarily but that will only be a sticking plaster to the larger problem of the beam being turned too far methinks.

I can only imagine what JTH would say To be fair, it looks f**king cool like this but it is completely undrivable even without the ARB fitted as it is a static drop and is stuck on a gravel driveway :lol:

I stand corrected. Aye lookout for a replacement beam then. At least you can recoup some of the cash by selling yours at a later date.

Jim