Upgrade to 1776 or deal with it?

[justcruzin]

I was talking to my hubby tonight and I think we have decided to just find a dual port 2 barrel carb intake for his 'built' 1776. I never liked this motor with a single carb. It just doesn't want to idle. It needs 2 carbs but he doesn't like the 2 carb set up. We both think it will do fine on a single 2 barrel carb though.

It's a strong motor and will definitely pull the hills. Only thing is I will probably have run a different exhaust. I'm not thrilled about that but I have seen one in another thread that I think will look ok and still do the trick.

So as soon as we find an intake, I should be able to put it in the bus. We figured why spend the money on building another, when we had one that runs great (besides the idle issue) sitting right in front of us.

Hope I didn't thread jack to much Sarah, just figured I'd share in your thread about going to a 1776 since I posted I wanted to do the same!

 

[andy11]

hmmm interesting thread this, I built my 1776 during winter and have been a bit disappointed with it, its fast enough on the motorways but struggles up hills. Just had 2 weeks in Cornwall and it couldnt cope with that at all. It has standard heads, engle 110, twin 40 dells and was rolling road tuned. If I built another it would be a 1915 at least. By the way it runs standard cooling and is quite happy. Dont know if I should try some different heads or get them flowed to try and improve things, need some more torque ideally.

 

[Shorty]

I'm not sure if I'm pleased I read this thread or not!! :lol: :roll:

I'm about to embark on building my own 1776cc, this evening in fact, and have read with interest what everyone's views are...

Much of what I am going to assemble was part of the original engine I bought (built in the US to 1776 spec and stripped down to see what was inside)...

What I've got for my 1776:

Outlaw large valve dual sprung heads
Counterweighted and balanced crankshaft - stock throw
Engle 110 cam with new cam followers
Mahle 90.45 barrels and pistons
1.1:1 rockers (I think! Anyone know how to tell!!! they could be 1.25:1 or 1.4:1???)
stock conrods
full flow oil system
deep sump
twin weber 36 carbs with CSP linkage
Pertonix Flame thrower coil with electronic ignition
Tapped rocker covers and breather box
This lot will all be mated up to an 'easy' exhaust


I welcome any comments on the above to be honest, this is my first engine build and until now I was pretty happy with what I am proposing, but if there is something in here that really needs to be changed then I'd happily accept the education! I'm hoping for somewhere between 80-110bhp.... and a good amount of torque to boot.....

 

[Merlydog]

I was talking to my hubby tonight and I think we have decided to just find a dual port 2 barrel carb intake for his 'built' 1776. I never liked this motor with a single carb. It just doesn't want to idle. It needs 2 carbs but he doesn't like the 2 carb set up. We both think it will do fine on a single 2 barrel carb though.

It's a strong motor and will definitely pull the hills. Only thing is I will probably have run a different exhaust. I'm not thrilled about that but I have seen one in another thread that I think will look ok and still do the trick.

So as soon as we find an intake, I should be able to put it in the bus. We figured why spend the money on building another, when we had one that runs great (besides the idle issue) sitting right in front of us.

Hope I didn't thread jack to much Sarah, just figured I'd share in your thread about going to a 1776 since I posted I wanted to do the same!

That's ok Kim, if my threads spurred you on to want a little more power and you ready have it sitting there then happy days! Different set ups and ideas all help people. Let us know how it goes! :mrgreen:

 

[Merlydog]

I've emailed them and asked which rocker assembly they'd suggest with the heads I'm buying. He said these:

http://www.drdracingheads.com/xcart/Type1-OEM-style-Rocker-arm-kit-1.10-ratio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Shorty]

I've emailed them and asked which rocker assembly they'd suggest with the heads I'm buying. He said these:

http://www.drdracingheads.com/xcart/Type1-OEM-style-Rocker-arm-kit-1.10-ratio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's what you've already got in a stock engine... surely :?:

 

[Merlydog]

I've emailed them and asked which rocker assembly they'd suggest with the heads I'm buying. He said these:

http://www.drdracingheads.com/xcart/Type1-OEM-style-Rocker-arm-kit-1.10-ratio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's what you've already got in a stock engine... surely :?:

Yes it is but I think what he's saying is the 1.25 ratio assemblies wouldn't make a noticible difference for the 1776 set up I'm going for so why waste the Money Dunno, I'm all ears for opinions as if they will increase my torque then the extra $30 dollars would be worth investing :mrgreen:

 

[Shorty]

I've emailed them and asked which rocker assembly they'd suggest with the heads I'm buying. He said these:

http://www.drdracingheads.com/xcart/Type1-OEM-style-Rocker-arm-kit-1.10-ratio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's what you've already got in a stock engine... surely :?:

Yes it is but I think what he's saying is the 1.25 ratio assemblies wouldn't make a noticible difference for the 1776 set up I'm going for so why waste the Money Dunno, I'm all ears for opinions as if they will increase my torque then the extra $30 dollars would be worth investing :mrgreen:

What you've been told re 1.25:1 rockers agrees with what I was told by Stateside tuning at VoWo earlier this year.. you apparently don't see a difference until you go to 1.4:1....

It might be worth speaking to Stateside actually just to get another expert opinion... the chaps name is James. he can be reached on 01608 812438. I don't know him personally, but I did find him very helpful and knowledgable to speak to...

 

[betsy70]

ive got a 1835 had it rebuilt after i destroyed it lol spec is
as41 case
044 heads
110 cam
standard crank
1:25:1 rockers
twin 40 s
external oil cooler
cb performance magna spark 2 dizzy
cb performance coil
deep sump
breatherbox tapped etc
cut to length rods
running it with a standard box and it pulls like a train
heard a lot of stories about the 1835 running too hot and was going to either drop down to 1776 or maybe go bigger , had no problems with it just back from spa and drove it all round europe with no probs

 

[ZedBed]

For what it's worth I have standard rockers and heads in my 1955. It pulls like a train to about 55mph in 3rd where the power drops off, but getting into 3rd 10mph or so faster than the 1600 is a big advantage - std 1600 box and rear tyres. I probably shouldn't rev it higher than that anyway. You won't be able to rev a std crank to this speed BTW - it'll flex, pound the bearings into the case then snap.
1.1:1 rockers? Can't hurt.

I know nothing BTW other than what's in my engine and how well it goes. It goes very nicely and nothing has slowed it down yet.

 

[easy]

2110 is the way id go personally, but i will be sticking to my stockish 1600 with twin carbs for laid back cruizing and getting in everyones way on the A30 :mrgreen: mind you at some point i will be adding a few trick pieces, but not just yet, i prefer to spend my cash on the holiday and not the engine or the increased fuel bill 8)

 

[dubdubz]

I've emailed them and asked which rocker assembly they'd suggest with the heads I'm buying. He said these:

http://www.drdracingheads.com/xcart/Type1-OEM-style-Rocker-arm-kit-1.10-ratio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

these are obviously HD and being bolt up shafts the springs won't ping off and you lose the rockers!

Another thing I would recommend highly is to get the crank and assembly balanced, I got my whole bottom end balanced by John Maher, well worth the money. although it's so smooth that when it was running on 3 cyls it was tricky to tell!!
I went for a Counterweighted crank - I'd advise the same. This is when the 'If I...'s' come in, because a 69 CW crank is very similar money to a 76mm, 76mm x 90.5 is the engine I believe Zed has ie 1955cc.
BUT 1955 is at the fueling limits of 36's I'm led to believe - it'd be ok in a bus, brakes would need upgrading though....and there's decent igntion required...
it is a slippery slope.

I'm going to get my 1745 running as sweet as, I'm going to try 30 chokes.

 

[Shorty]

Oh it's a slippery slope alright! :lol:

 

[jonboylaw]

Zed has a 76 mm T4 crank fitted (from a 2.1l waterboxer).
Crank balancing can be a bit of a can of worms, but suggest the crank is balanced separately to the Flywheel and Rods/Pistons. If each item is balanced separatelyt then they should work together, it also means you can change the pistons/flywheel/crank independantly to the others without losing balance.... It is not critical unless you are going to be reving the nuts off it. For a low reving stroker torque motor it is probably a nice to have, not an absolute.
Again, the 36 Dells will be fine with the 1955, but you are limited to about 5Krpm before they become restrictive (30mm chokes), but have the benefit of more torques at low RPM and a nice smooth uptake (nice to drive).
For iginition, I am putting together a megajolt system with Vac assisted advance (this should be fun when it comes to mapping...) so should remove the weakness od the dizzy/points/coil set up on there at the moment.

 

[Merlydog]

Zed has a 76 mm T4 crank fitted (from a 2.1l waterboxer).
Crank balancing can be a bit of a can of worms, but suggest the crank is balanced separately to the Flywheel and Rods/Pistons. If each item is balanced separatelyt then they should work together, it also means you can change the pistons/flywheel/crank independantly to the others without losing balance.... It is not critical unless you are going to be reving the nuts off it. For a low reving stroker torque motor it is probably a nice to have, not an absolute.
Again, the 36 Dells will be fine with the 1955, but you are limited to about 5Krpm before they become restrictive (30mm chokes), but have the benefit of more torques at low RPM and a nice smooth uptake (nice to drive).
For iginition, I am putting together a megajolt system with Vac assisted advance (this should be fun when it comes to mapping...) so should remove the weakness od the dizzy/points/coil set up on there at the moment.

I'm pleased you posted this jonboy, I was starting to get concerned about balancing and the like. I certainly won't be revvin the nuts off it nor taking it down the strip. It's purely for the motorway and hill bursts. That's it!
It's going to be a 1776 with twin 36 dells, c/w crank, 110 engle cam, these heads hopefully - http://www.drdracingheads.com/xcart/DRD-35.5X32mm-Performance-head.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, 90.5mm B&Ps and the rest as standard as possible really. I'm pretty lost in the oil options and what's required atm so any light you can shed on the options available would be appreciated.

 

[67panel]

thats what I meant with the heads,I would set compresion to 8.5 .you may need case decking ,good idea anyway to make barrel seals true and if you can budget for it balancing is a good idea .oil needs a HD pump and bypass with remote fillter you may not need a cooler but thats easy to fit later.you could go 1836ccs as well cos its the same fit ,its like 1641 and if carbs are set right (and timing)then it wont overheat.




well thats what i think---------dave ducking allready :msn4:

 

[dubdubz]

thickwall 92's won't overheat anyway...

this thread is becoming a useful collection of stuff..

 

[Shorty]

this thread is becoming a useful collection of stuff..

You're not wrong dubz!

For the oil, you can now get a full flow - basically an external oil filter - which attaches to the oil pump..

http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Oil-Pump-Cover-With-Outlets-AC1159226_act_shop.product_pID_106368_lang_EN_country_GB.htm?crumbStartPage=4&crumbStartRow=72" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have learnt a few other little snippets over the past few weeks that I will share in the hope that it might save you time - it seems every time I think I'm ready to start building, something else pops up!

Engine build lube:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/oil-additives/torco-mpz-engine-assembly-lube-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plastigauge: to make sure the gaps between your rods and crankshaft are correct...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastigauge-Engine-Bearing-Clearance-Gauge/dp/B005P9BTHY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345662759&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A small torque wrench:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-34570-88-5-708-Inch-Pounds-Ratchet/dp/B0001K9T2O/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1345662804&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a syringe to measure your swept volume, the right tool to measure your deck height and a compression test kit.

the other thing someone told me earlier was regarding the bearings.. these should apparently be steel backed.. I bought Mahle ones which are freely available at all the usual outlets but these are 100% aluminium, which allow the crank to flex slightly... :shock:

I sound like a proper nerd huh.. I promise you I'm not, I've never built an engine before in my life, this is just what I've found out in the last few weeks...

Balancing BTW isn't too expensive, I think I paid £150 to have the crank, flywheel, pulley and clutchplate balanced... the last thing I would say is to check your valves seal properly if you are going to get new heads... some might say to polish and port the heads, but like me, your not looking for a race engine, so you might not see much benefit doing this for the cost of it.... I haven't done mine...

I hope this is helpful and doesn't come across preachy, I've been gathering peoples advice for a few weeks and just want to share what I've been led to believe....

 

[K@rlos]

This will be my 2110 soon

AS41 case: shuffle pinned, full flowed, machined/clearanced 7 welded behind no 3
CB performance 4340 82mm crank with Chevy journals & 8 dowelled
DRD 5.4 Chevy journal rod
Mahle stroker 90.5 p&b's
Engle FK8 cam
1.4:1 rockers
DRD heads with 42x38 valves, ported & polished
Chromoly pushrods
Weber 44 IDF's
1 5/8 merged header with mondo muffler
Berg oil pump
Deep sump
External filter & cooler with fan
Lightned flywheel
Rotating assembly all lightened & balanced

Should be fun

 

[jonboylaw]

K@rlos,
Have you bought the B&Ps already? I have been advised that the AA 90.5 strokers are or more consistant quality than the Mahle ones at the moment.

What characteristics are you looking for ? Torque/topend power ?